Saidan, I got a request for you
Since its extremely clear that crossfire is having a serious hacking problem. I can honestly say that around 80-90% of the players are hacking. I know some are going to says that 80-90% is too high, but if you actually played long enough and have decent skills (ability to hear footsteps, and think tactically), you can EASILY distinguish a hacker from someone who is actually good. And I know that everytime you patch the hack, it only takes programmers a day to bypass,so here's my idea.
The next time there is a GG update, instead of displaying, "hack detected", let the player continue playing. Have GG send a log to the GMs stating the IGN and Username of the account. You can wait until they log back on, and check is they use it again if one time isn't enough, just look at all the logs of that player. And instead of going through tens, since most people either hack themselves or are too lazy to report because of the serious flawed replay system, you can immediately ban. I know you pointed out numerous times about the whole IP banning not working cause it can be bypassed, but what you need to understand is that just cause a person is USING a hack doesn't mean they MADE it. I guarantee that 99% of hackers are leechers, and have no technical computer knowledge themselves. If someone has to first bypass and create a new account they will eventually give up, not to mention the increase in lag if they try to reroute their ip, making the game nearly impossible to play. These IP bans don't have to be permanent since no company likes losing paying customers, perhaps a strike system.
I know you have no actual control over GG, but you can always suggest this idea at a meeting. If the tournament is any indication, it clearly shows that hacks are getting out of hand.
I was going to originally going to PM you, but I wanted to see what people might want to add or change, agree or disagree.
If you actually implement this technique, I can GUARANTEE that over 1000, easily, accounts would be banned. This plan follows simple logic, when your trying to catch someone, you set up a trap. Instead of saying, "hey there's a trap here", you let them walk into it and by then its too late.
The next time there is a GG update, instead of displaying, "hack detected", let the player continue playing. Have GG send a log to the GMs stating the IGN and Username of the account. You can wait until they log back on, and check is they use it again if one time isn't enough, just look at all the logs of that player. And instead of going through tens, since most people either hack themselves or are too lazy to report because of the serious flawed replay system, you can immediately ban. I know you pointed out numerous times about the whole IP banning not working cause it can be bypassed, but what you need to understand is that just cause a person is USING a hack doesn't mean they MADE it. I guarantee that 99% of hackers are leechers, and have no technical computer knowledge themselves. If someone has to first bypass and create a new account they will eventually give up, not to mention the increase in lag if they try to reroute their ip, making the game nearly impossible to play. These IP bans don't have to be permanent since no company likes losing paying customers, perhaps a strike system.
I know you have no actual control over GG, but you can always suggest this idea at a meeting. If the tournament is any indication, it clearly shows that hacks are getting out of hand.
I was going to originally going to PM you, but I wanted to see what people might want to add or change, agree or disagree.
If you actually implement this technique, I can GUARANTEE that over 1000, easily, accounts would be banned. This plan follows simple logic, when your trying to catch someone, you set up a trap. Instead of saying, "hey there's a trap here", you let them walk into it and by then its too late.
Comments
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I actually think those that hack contribute a fair amount of money via the item shop. It's somewhat bad for revenue to use company resources on this. The key is that the game developers don't think spending resources on improving on the hacking situation will result in a major boost in revenue. And game developers will not do anything that doesn't improve revenue.
Check out the forum Announcements section. 80% of them detail on how many resources they spent on ensuring and expanding the payment process. While other websites like manga sites talk about how they are cracking down on illegal ads (instead of letting illegal ads run rampant for more revenue).
Also, you are right about the ability to distinguish them. I played 1 vs 2 against a couple forcetugas. One was legit and the other guy was psychic. He even did it intelligently stopping outside of earshot range and waiting for me to turn away. I still killed them anyways. If you're fast enough and think positively enough, it's good training.
If you don't want to impact your K/D just exit. No weapon damage, no scores recorded. He doesn't get reported but whatever... -
great idea lol.. just too bad there's no one at Z8 working on fixing hacks:( last patch was a total fake and not only got rid of no hacks but people suddenly had speed hack back and stuff -.- buddy server is still screwed up also (some people cant whisper to others) and there was 0 new content... games 90% full of hackers and even if u do send a reply there's no one to look at it or does anything about it sooo yeah... not sure what there doing other then scaning fourms all day deleting threads they don't agree with lol.. but they should try fixing the game... people are getting fed up with it and with good right considering a lot of us are paying customers
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At this point people should know better than this with regards to posts like the above. (also yes, you did spell my name wrong)
A) this is a suggestion (belongs in the suggestion forum) and
trying to post publicly about controversial subjects to garner public support usually results in flame wars and threads being closed.
I don't want to close this thread, but think about what your saying before posting it publicly, and post in the right forum.
So let me address a couple things here.
First off, yes, we have a contract with GG and it is obvious that there are things they aren't keeping up with. HOWEVER, that does not mean they aren't doing their job. Most GG patches go in silently and don't affect the game or the servers. That being said, the last patch we put in caused major issues with the buddy server and the clan server, so we've had to roll that patch back out and work on the solution with GG to make sure we get a working patch. We also track the hacks and sites and make all the necessary parties aware of what is going on with the game. It has resulted in success in stopping hacks in the past and will in the future too. We've always thanked you for your patience when dealing the hacks and we know where they stand at any given situation in the game.
Patching the game ALSO helps the hacking problem, and we are fully aware that this doesn't last long. However it does last, and considering this is the 3rd patch we're putting in the game in under a month I'd say we're on a pretty good direction on all fronts (content AND anti hack).
Next thing, people only complain when hacking becomes a problem. They never make a comment for when a hack gets fixed. We don't release this information because we don't want to encourage the hackers any further. We know this isn't ideal (at least right now), but it's all working towards a bigger strategy that we hope will eventually reduce the hacking to a much more reasonable level.
As for your suggestion, it is not new, even for us. And there are things in the works that may see something like this implemented. But since those things are internal you, as the public, will never know when they are implemented. Whether or not we have the tools, we will always ask our gamers to report malicious behavior (hacks or not). So our systems may already flag things, but we're not going to be making that information public. It gives too much advantage to people, not to mention its against company private policy.
And lastly, to address some of the numbers people are bringing up. NO ONE knows what % of the people hack. That's like saying 9/10 people believe in statistics. You guys are pulling numbers out of places I can't even comprehend. 80% here, 90% here, revenues here, hackers there. These numbers are a fallacy. Pudgy specifically references some of the new payment options we've introduced. Don't forget that we've moved to a new portal and for now paybycash doesn't work, which was one of the #1 talked about subjects on the forums during our move to z8 games. So we heard that and have offered plenty of alternatives. During the move we heard our users when they complained we weren't patching. And now we're 3 patches in a month in. We do listen to players, we understand that reporting hacking is cumbersome, we understand there are flaws in the system. And it remains one of the things we intend on improving.
And lastly, if people break the rules it doesn't matter whether they are a ZP user or not. Some bans will not show up publicly, but that doesn't mean we don't ban them. Some 'hackusations' are questionable, but that doesn't mean we don't investigate them thoroughly. And some users buy ZP, but that doesn't mean they are above the rules of the game.
Also, to pudgy's "if you leave you can't report them" comment. Please check this thread for instructions on how to save a replay part way through. It can be buggy and not work 100% of the time. But it's a good little work around. -
seriously soon as a patch goes online your sitting in a level and a dude will run right up to you... say "hi" and head shot u... patches either do not work for chams (or w/e it is that sees ghost) EVER or they only last approx 2seconds? and I'm not pulling that out of a place where no one can even comprehend... also people are pulling out numbers and %'s from actually playing the game all day for days a week and having to deal with it:P no joke.. EVERY ghost mode game has 1 hacker and if your lucky that's all... some games there's so many hackers you cant even kick them because they all f12 eachother and kick the one gr that's not hacking... there’s a age old sane that says "You can't change what you don’t acknowledge" and denying what your customers are trying to tell you every time a problem is acknowledged wont fix it:P it is a very high % of players hacking in the game and something does need to be done with it:P I understand you guys try patches with game guard but if you play the game you’ll see its not working... not even for a hour... and if 3 patches in one month (btw thank you for that) aren’t working maybe try something other than game guard:P sure you herd that 99million times though lol.. and you might be reading the wrong forums because after a patch comes out there are a lot of posts saying thanks and how great the new stuff is... every thing that’s been added in the game so far has been really awesome and fun to use (super kriss
!!) and the events are always fun (when there’s no hackers -.-) so thanks for all your hard work but the hacks really do need fixing 
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"And lastly, if people break the rules it doesn't matter whether they are a ZP user or not. Some bans will not show up publicly, but that doesn't mean we don't ban them. Some 'hackusations' are questionable, but that doesn't mean we don't investigate them thoroughly. And some users buy ZP, but that doesn't mean they are above the rules of the game."
lol man if i hs 1$ every time i herd "he wont get banned he has zp items" id have every single gun in the game including allthe golden guns and other cupon weapons O.o not even worth it to tell them it doesnt matter if they buy zp or not lol -
Thanks for the heads up Saidin, I'll be putting that temp file to use...
And granted 80% was an eyeball figure, I counted the major flash banner up front as well at the time. I actually did go there and estimate but I'm done pixel counting, lol.
To everyone else giving their numbers and anecdotes, I will give mine. I haven't seen more than 1 speed hacker in the last 5 months. When back in Feb I would see one in every room. GG has definitely been doing something in my opinion. My first reply in this thread had a purpose: to tell you it's NOT THAT BAD. The rate of skills in this game is going up as people spend more time in maps. Couple that with the lack of servers ergo high ping, and you get people zipping every once in a while.
#of wallers in CF might be comparable to CS:S actually. I think GG is similar in patching-speed as VAC (valve anti-cheat). Did you know VAC still catches competitors that walled every CAL season when it was still around? You guys need to stop complaining and work on either reaction time or common skills like walking, or rounding corners with latency. For dealing with latency go here:
http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=10045
I'll tell you what I can handle:
- noobs that wall (camp and listen for them coming)
- noobs that aimbot (force it to a corner that you can prefire)
- noobs that speed (get in a corner, they'll come in a line)
What I can't handle:
- non-noobs that wall (they will walk when getting close, met one in CF so far)
- anyone that goes invisible (only damage by nade, knife, fall damage)
For the record, you guys are setting the statistics for wallers way too high in my opinion. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »At this point people should know better than this with regards to posts like the above. (also yes, you did spell my name wrong)
A) this is a suggestion (belongs in the suggestion forum) and trying to post publicly about controversial subjects to garner public support usually results in flame wars and threads being closed.
I don't want to close this thread, but think about what your saying before posting it publicly, and post in the right forum.
So let me address a couple things here.
First off, yes, we have a contract with GG and it is obvious that there are things they aren't keeping up with. HOWEVER, that does not mean they aren't doing their job. Most GG patches go in silently and don't affect the game or the servers. That being said, the last patch we put in caused major issues with the buddy server and the clan server, so we've had to roll that patch back out and work on the solution with GG to make sure we get a working patch. We also track the hacks and sites and make all the necessary parties aware of what is going on with the game. It has resulted in success in stopping hacks in the past and will in the future too. We've always thanked you for your patience when dealing the hacks and we know where they stand at any given situation in the game.
Patching the game ALSO helps the hacking problem, and we are fully aware that this doesn't last long. However it does last, and considering this is the 3rd patch we're putting in the game in under a month I'd say we're on a pretty good direction on all fronts (content AND anti hack).
Next thing, people only complain when hacking becomes a problem. They never make a comment for when a hack gets fixed. We don't release this information because we don't want to encourage the hackers any further. We know this isn't ideal (at least right now), but it's all working towards a bigger strategy that we hope will eventually reduce the hacking to a much more reasonable level.
As for your suggestion, it is not new, even for us. And there are things in the works that may see something like this implemented. But since those things are internal you, as the public, will never know when they are implemented. Whether or not we have the tools, we will always ask our gamers to report malicious behavior (hacks or not). So our systems may already flag things, but we're not going to be making that information public. It gives too much advantage to people, not to mention its against company private policy.
And lastly, to address some of the numbers people are bringing up. NO ONE knows what % of the people hack. That's like saying 9/10 people believe in statistics. You guys are pulling numbers out of places I can't even comprehend. 80% here, 90% here, revenues here, hackers there. These numbers are a fallacy. Pudgy specifically references some of the new payment options we've introduced. Don't forget that we've moved to a new portal and for now paybycash doesn't work, which was one of the #1 talked about subjects on the forums during our move to z8 games. So we heard that and have offered plenty of alternatives. During the move we heard our users when they complained we weren't patching. And now we're 3 patches in a month in. We do listen to players, we understand that reporting hacking is cumbersome, we understand there are flaws in the system. And it remains one of the things we intend on improving.
And lastly, if people break the rules it doesn't matter whether they are a ZP user or not. Some bans will not show up publicly, but that doesn't mean we don't ban them. Some 'hackusations' are questionable, but that doesn't mean we don't investigate them thoroughly. And some users buy ZP, but that doesn't mean they are above the rules of the game.
Also, to pudgy's "if you leave you can't report them" comment. Please check this thread for instructions on how to save a replay part way through. It can be buggy and not work 100% of the time. But it's a good little work around.
First of all, sorry for misspelling your name, it was late, half asleep, and I wrote it in a hurry. I wasn't really saying that you or GameGuard, for that matter, weren't doing your job. I get that there is a lot of stuff going on in the background that we don't see, therefore leading to speculations.
All I was trying to say is that the next time you guys have a talk with GG, just throw that idea out there. I not a 100% sure how GG works, but I know for a fact that when it detects a hacks, it prevents you from launching the game until that program is turned off. What I'm saying is let them hack for that period of time to gather evidence. I mean you can create a tally of how many times that person comes on and uses an outside program. Perhaps wait like a week for people to do what they do normally, and that's when you hit them at once. This way, you can let evidence gather up. Once it happens ONLY once, it will put fear into people, and as we all know, fear is the strongest weapon in existence.
Another bonus would be that the hack programmers won't know which hack GameGuard has detected, and that in turn will severely limit future hacks, not to mention that if you do this twice or more, people will become cautious, and the chance that people will risk their account again is dramatically decreased, especially those paying customers. -
Thanks for the heads up Saidin, I'll be putting that temp file to use...
And granted 80% was an eyeball figure, I counted the major flash banner up front as well at the time. I actually did go there and estimate but I'm done pixel counting, lol.
To everyone else giving their numbers and anecdotes, I will give mine. I haven't seen more than 1 speed hacker in the last 5 months. When back in Feb I would see one in every room. GG has definitely been doing something in my opinion. My first reply in this thread had a purpose: to tell you it's NOT THAT BAD. The rate of skills in this game is going up as people spend more time in maps. Couple that with the lack of servers ergo high ping, and you get people zipping every once in a while.
#of wallers in CF might be comparable to CS:S actually. I think GG is similar in patching-speed as VAC (valve anti-cheat). Did you know VAC still catches competitors that walled every CAL season when it was still around? You guys need to stop complaining and work on either reaction time or common skills like walking, or rounding corners with latency. For dealing with latency go here:
http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=10045
I'll tell you what I can handle:
- noobs that wall (camp and listen for them coming)
- noobs that aimbot (force it to a corner that you can prefire)
- noobs that speed (get in a corner, they'll come in a line)
What I can't handle:
- non-noobs that wall (they will walk when getting close, met one in CF so far)
- anyone that goes invisible (only damage by nade, knife, fall damage)
For the record, you guys are setting the statistics for wallers way too high in my opinion.
I agree that 80% is a exaggerated number, but if you play for some time its clear to see that the hacker problem is getting out of hand. If you played this game since beta like I have, you can notice differences in the way people have started to play especially after public hacks became well known. Granted that some of it is due to experience over time, but when someone KNOWS where the enemies in front of them are, when the enemies aren't even moving or are across the map, yet when there's one STOMPING behind them, they don't notice, it makes you think twice. I don't really have that much of a problem with hackers expect when their ego are way out of proportion. Most of the people that hack are either really bad, in which case, they still do bad, or are incredibly good at hiding them, I know from experience because I was in a clan with some people who for the longest time seemed legit, until one day they slip up and get caught. -
ANY kind of ZP/GP incentive can cause people to submit reports for the wrong reasons. The amount and stuff needs to be really thought out well in advance...Here's an incentive on reporting hackers:
Z8 should reward those who report someone who was really hacking, with 100zp or something...
To the OP:
I have played this game since open beta, and in all honesty rarely does a day go by without me playing some CF. Often I play over 6 hours. I do see changes in how people play as their personal exp or exp with walls increases over time. Quickly they approach the behavior pattern of the average CS:S player, swearing included.
The more I play the more psychic I become myself. More than once I snipe GR side down Factory mid and AWM-HS via doors after seeing some feet run by. Same goes for BlackWidow BL side even if they jump. To the noob it's getting hard to distinguish legit from not... -
ANY kind of ZP/GP incentive can cause people to submit reports for the wrong reasons. The amount and stuff needs to be really thought out well in advance...
as i wrote:
Z8 should reward those who report someone who was REALLY hacking
this means that if u report someone who WASN'T HACKING you ll get squat ZP -
but don't you want to remove hackers from the game?[MOD]Delaco wrote: »i think he's referring to how we already get an excess of non-hacking reports, and it would increase dramatically if we added incentives.
You chopped down half of my clan and now we play matches and lose honor, rank, gp and xp because we that are good dont use hacks. But when we play with other teams that start losing, they activate cheats and win the matches, while we try to play honestly.
Where is the reward for playing honestly or the punishment for those who aren't? We get neither of those.
I m not saying I justify the hackers in our clan (actually I was happy they got their a$$es kicked), even if they used them when others cheated, but see what little good you did by eliminating ONLY ONE PORTION of the cheaters.
Also the halloween map sucks, but I LOVE the halloween mp5! -
I play this game for like 6months or more..
i played in Closed beta and now i still play, in closed beta no1 hacked now everyone hacks wt a nubs i get called hacker everytime becuz im good,
And now i cant logg on my main account for some reason or i got kicked from game or someone hacked me -
i saw hackers too
yeh the other day i was in a game with 1v1 and this guy sucked like real sucked i was winning like 12/4 and then more joined.... well we were in fortress and i kept following him without him noticing
and well u know where u walk in the door and then another and u face the stairs.. well i was watchin this guy and he was walkin thru and i was followin, well he started to shoot the door frame before he even got through the door to see up the stairs and sure enough there was a guy at top of stairs!! and another time was when he HS me through the middle bit under the roof (u cn shoot thru it) well he HS me thru that in like 1 shot and he was on total other side like at his base.... and then another time i was hiding behind the stairs and noway can u be seen at the door he came from, and he just shot me thru the stairs! i mean how the hell do you explain that?! the hacking % is far too high man and yeh ik u are trying and i thank you but if i were u lot i would say **** off to GG coz they not doin very well! my old mate used to hack and he said he was using the same hack for months that hadnt been detected because it wasnt popular.. also saidin i hav sum replays for u mate
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