Ingame Officers from the community for ingame H.ack control
We are all aware of the h.ack situation and those who play legit know what a mess it is at the moment. Especially at clan wars u can see so many tricky Hackers trough the new clan competion. They are so many wallers at the moment, that everyone is suspicious. U cant trust anyone. More and more legit players leave this game, cause they have enough of this crap.
The experience of the last 3 years show us that a anti h.ack system is unable to advance as fast as new h.acks. The report system also is too slow to avoid the situation or ist not avaible in ffa or in clan wars. The kick vote system is the only way in public to get ride of them, but u know how often u still lose cause the vote system is too slow, or the opponents dont vote. And how many of skilled players love it to get kicked 4 nothing.
At clan wars the situation gets worse at the moment. Its not so that the h.acker do wallshoots, what i mean are obvious ha.cks. They just use no recoil, see through wall, or a bot. They get tricky and smart and u just can see their third party in the replay afterwards. And u can report and report and report, honestly it doesnt get better. Today a h.cker spawned at our side *teleport h.ack* with full program and killed us in an instant. U could say, just report. U know what, we all leaved and had no replay.
The only way, and i mean the really last chance to secure this game from getting destroyed like cs1.6 is to obtain more power to legit players. A at the moment a almost useless bureaucracy report system is incapable to have a impact on the situation.
There are still enough proven and legit players, who have enough experience to difference between h.ack and skill, are tolerant to all countries and just want a fair competion. These player even dont want to get money or a benefit support a clean game.
This game need ingame officers, people who can faster detect a h.acker than any software. Give players in a room the comfort for respect a skilled plazer without a suspicion.
And at least, they are cheaper for u z8 than an anti. hack software. More effective in getting ride of them, and u will get more earning cause players dont leave this game and new plazers will come.
Well, u have to trust the community and players. U have to choice them.
But please get ingame officers to the game for competion, a better salary for z8 management.
and at least more fun 4 everyone. please understand this is a win win situation for everyone (ok well the noob h.acker and programmersa re not winning trough this improvment securement)
Well i hope someone read it..
cy in a fair game
TheBacider
The experience of the last 3 years show us that a anti h.ack system is unable to advance as fast as new h.acks. The report system also is too slow to avoid the situation or ist not avaible in ffa or in clan wars. The kick vote system is the only way in public to get ride of them, but u know how often u still lose cause the vote system is too slow, or the opponents dont vote. And how many of skilled players love it to get kicked 4 nothing.
At clan wars the situation gets worse at the moment. Its not so that the h.acker do wallshoots, what i mean are obvious ha.cks. They just use no recoil, see through wall, or a bot. They get tricky and smart and u just can see their third party in the replay afterwards. And u can report and report and report, honestly it doesnt get better. Today a h.cker spawned at our side *teleport h.ack* with full program and killed us in an instant. U could say, just report. U know what, we all leaved and had no replay.
The only way, and i mean the really last chance to secure this game from getting destroyed like cs1.6 is to obtain more power to legit players. A at the moment a almost useless bureaucracy report system is incapable to have a impact on the situation.
There are still enough proven and legit players, who have enough experience to difference between h.ack and skill, are tolerant to all countries and just want a fair competion. These player even dont want to get money or a benefit support a clean game.
This game need ingame officers, people who can faster detect a h.acker than any software. Give players in a room the comfort for respect a skilled plazer without a suspicion.
And at least, they are cheaper for u z8 than an anti. hack software. More effective in getting ride of them, and u will get more earning cause players dont leave this game and new plazers will come.
Well, u have to trust the community and players. U have to choice them.
But please get ingame officers to the game for competion, a better salary for z8 management.
and at least more fun 4 everyone. please understand this is a win win situation for everyone (ok well the noob h.acker and programmersa re not winning trough this improvment securement)
Well i hope someone read it..
cy in a fair game
TheBacider
Comments
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.. not enough staff.. they is enough staff in community, trust is the answer ! If u trust no one this game is dead. They are enough possibilities to get ingame officers work proberly for all legit players.
and before mod9 says:
OT#2:
GMs do play, announced and unannounced. Giving other people banning powers will most likely be abused unfortunately.
1. There are not enough gms and they have not enough ingame power.
2. Pff, dont think so ! Just give these special rights to choosen ones and have a system to control them. The replay system offers enough possibilities to control the abuse of ingame officers, or false decisions. Its easier to control a false decision, as to control that many reports for h.acking. Just think how this can work and dont just say that power will always be abused.
The onlz always are the h.acker in every room. -
You realize that if an ingame mod picked from the community loses it just once and bans a player perm because he was ticked off, that's the end of choosing from the community... not enough staff.. they is enough staff in community, trust is the answer ! If u trust no one this game is dead. They are enough possibilities to get ingame officers work proberly for all legit players.
and before mod9 says:
OT#2:
GMs do play, announced and unannounced. Giving other people banning powers will most likely be abused unfortunately.
1. There are not enough gms and they have not enough ingame power.
2. Pff, dont think so ! Just give these special rights to choosen ones and have a system to control them. The replay system offers enough possibilities to control the abuse of ingame officers, or false decisions. Its easier to control a false decision, as to control that many reports for h.acking. Just think how this can work and dont just say that power will always be abused.
The onlz always are the h.acker in every room. -
-
BadMonkey666 wrote: »People do this in nearly every game.
The moderators could chose some people from the forum and give them permissions to give out bans. But they have to proof it with replay files, this way we can make sure that no one gets banned accidentally.
Exactly.
If this were to ever happen which it should IMO then all bans would have to be backed up with proof for example screen shots if they player did a chat violation or replay if it was hack or glitch.
Then whether wrongly banned or not if the ban is disputed the evidence must be looked at by a reviewer (higher up). If at any time the replay is lost etc then the ban should be reversed and if this happens often enough take away the in game mods power. -
Exactly.
If this were to ever happen which it should IMO then all bans would have to be backed up with proof for example screen shots if they player did a chat violation or replay if it was hack or glitch.
Then whether wrongly banned or not if the ban is disputed the evidence must be looked at by a reviewer (higher up). If at any time the replay is lost etc then the ban should be reversed and if this happens often enough take away the in game mods power.
Sure ingame mods need a proof for their decision. I never wanted to doubt that. They need a replay for ban someone permanent. Also they should be able to kick someone out of a game immediately, if its a obvious h.ack *spawnkiller*.
At least one thing i have to say, every human can make a mistake, it will happen. Anyway this solution dont need a hardway at the beginning. For a test or a tryout, i thought about this.
ingame Officer grade A can just Kick someone out of the game.
ingame officer grade B can kick and has a higher priority in the report system
ingame officer grade C can kick and ban for 3 days with a uploaded replay file.
ingame office grade D can kick and ban for 7 days with a uploaded replay file.
Mods can kick and ban permanent with a uploaded replay file.
After 3 bans through ingame officers, the account should be closed permanent. Kicks dont effect anything. It is just to control the capabilty o fair decisions from ingame officer. They have to check the replay before they ban a account.
Other players can check the decision from a ingame officer through their own capability to save and watch a replay. Of course there is a replay file needed !
At the moment this is a problem, cause there is no possibility to save a replay, if u got kicked. But not long time ago, this was possible. So it can be possible again.
The ingame officers have to be trusted persons, honorable and with enough experience. Nor farmer of course ! And there had to be a court or management for checking their decisions also. If a ingame mod does well in free us legit players from hack, he shall rank up with his rights. If he continues to use his power for wrong decisions he shall lose his rights.
Well its just a brainstorm, i just want to show that there are ways to solve any problem regarding ingame officers. And it doesnt cost or change to much for z8.
Just less h.acks , more control, more competetive players. Less kick for skilled player..
Wtf we need this ! -
I cant edit its too much text
, so i take the importeant part.Sure ingame mods need a proof for their decision. I never wanted to doubt that.
At least one thing i have to say, every human can make a mistake, it will happen. Anyway this solution dont need a hardway at the beginning. For a test or a tryout, i thought about this.
ingame Officer grade A can just Kick someone out of the game.
ingame officer grade B can kick and has a higher priority in the report system
Other players can check the decision from a ingame officer through their own capability to save and watch a replay. Of course there is a replay file needed !
Some critism of their power can be on a public thread, so all can control it for a test phase.
At the moment this is a problem, cause there is no possibility to save a replay, if u got kicked. But not long time ago, this was possible. So it can be possible again. -
Use the search button
its basically the same thread with a different title
and ? I dont think i invented a new crossfire. But i respond to some of the difficulties which go along with that idea. I tried to keep it short, but well if u like to play with all the h.acks. Dont mind that i refresh this idea, cause i think its the best, the last and fastest way.
and there is a difference in my approach to the old idea
http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=190829&highlight=ingame+mods
There they say ingame mods, i dont want to have official mods. As is said there a enough skilled player, with a fair game sense, which can handle that kind of control. We all have recognized, and espescially the h.acker, that there is not enough official staff to handle the h.ack situation.
Ingame officers dont want to get paid for their work, dont want to absue their rights. They just want a fair competition, which is not given at the moment. There are so many players, which would do it for nothing.
Another important factor is the abuse of the vote kick system, so often skilled players just get kicked, cause no one knows anymore, who is a h.acker oder a experienced player. Everyone is suspicios, if he got killed by a lucky shot. Thats why the vote system sucks so much at the moment. With a ingame officer in a game, everyone feels save, that no one in the room is h.acking. More control wouldnt harm the game.
Z8 just has advantages of, instead a noob pays4 a vip h.ack, he would buy a bullet proof west or tries to get better weapons. At the moment he rather plays with his m16 without recoil and aim. bot.
I can not understand, why so many are afraid of it. Its easier to control some ingame officier of abuse of their power than, than the overwhelming numbers of h.acks. -
This is very nice solution.
And if those officers get payed/rewarded enough, I doubt they will want to ban somebody just because they don't like him.
I dont even think that the officers need a reward and still do a fair job. Of course Z8 has to do a good job in making conditions for officers. For example over 18, enough experience in the game, still honourable ribbon, tolerant and a high rank. High rank cause if he abuse *for his own advantage* his power he should be banned too.
As said in some comments, there will be no ban without a replay. So a higher instance can check a decision.
Anyway i posted this thread for the obvious h.acks like wallshooter, aimbots. A ban or kick shall only be allowed for obvious h.acks. For anything else there have to be always a second opinion.
This option is for adult players who are interested in a fair competition. Not for kiddies or selfish people.
Well, under these circumstances it will work properly.
Little example. Every day i meet at least 12 obvious h.acks, that would be 84 h.acks in a week, 336 in a month. With about 20 officers this solution can detect 6720 obvious h.acks in a month. 80640 in a year.
What i will tell with this example, within in a short period of time, with less people. Just focused on obvious h.ackers. This game could be provide a fair playground for fps fans. -
On paper it is a good idea. But there are some problems with it....
- Z8Games doesn't want to give normal players the power to ban.
- There is no way to track how often these players kick someone out of a room with their powers or why they kick them.
- Z8 doesn't know how certain people are in game. I've seen people that appear quite mature and then out of the blue, they start swearing like a little kid with Tourettes.
It would be nice to have a small group (it has to remain controlable) of responsible players, yes, but this has already been suggested and denied multiple times. If Z8 doesn't want it, you can suggest it as many times as you want...it won't happen. If anyone would be given the power to instantly kick players or ban them, it would be the mods, but even they don't have that kind of power.
I can understand that they are a bit reluctant to give too much power to common players though... -
thx, 4 the critic.
I go along with what u said. i already said, at the tryout, their reports just have a higher priority than others. So they cant ban without control.
I really like to see them kick players if they see them, but in the start, it will be better that this option is not avaible.
After this tryout, z8 can see the success rate of right and wrong reports.
There a ways to avoid the abuse of the power of a ingame officer. I honestly have to say if z8 doents care about the h.acks at all, they will lose profit in short notice. Its like cs 1.6, it got destroyed through the same circumstances.
Z8 lose profit every day through h.acks, cause a player could invest in zp to get better weapons and stuff. Instead of it he can now stuck with his m16 and a ha.ck. With no recoil and endless ammo, it will be the best weapon available.
There is a need to get control of the situation before ist too late. Its not only the h,acks are a reason to leave this game, also almost everyone is so suspicious about the amount of h,acks that the good and well rounded player get kicked through votes for no reason. Cause they just get assumed to be a h.ack.
So many threads about the vote system, the ha.cks. and the slow report system. I cant understand the z8 mamagement at all not to tryout another ways to improve these matters.
So i guess keep this threat alive, and hope it will be recognized soon. -
Well, they can't change the kick vote system themselves...Game content comes from the developers, so kick vote does so as well. (in-game permissions/powers probably as well.)
And a priority report might work for a little while, but then it would just end up in the same way as the normal report system does.
You gave some numbers based on the amount of hackers you see each day. Numbers ended rather high in the end huh? They might keep up with the reviewing and processing of those priority reports, but after a while, they will just start lagging behind as well. Not to mention that having to many priority reports lead to not having time for the normal reports... -
yeah, its true. But as u can see *in my other answers, i explained my final solution*, i dont think that my answer to you should be the final solution.
Its just to start this ingame police, for a tryout. To see if it can work or not. At the moment the support has the problem of many false reports, this take some extra time. Experienced player can better difference between h.ack or not. So this can be a first test for the ingame police, and the people who actually do it. A more effective way of reporting. U are right if u say, even this can get too much, but the number of officer can be limited, even their reports per day can be limited. Such a group can better be organized and will work more effective !
It shall finally end in a real ingame police, therefore i take the name ingame officer, which can kick on sight and ban easier *with an uploaded replay to secure their desision* of course. But that is my final solution, i dont expect this to get from 0 to 100. It will take some time to reach that. But there a always ways and it needs small steps.
Therefore , i think u are absolutely right, it has to start in a much easier way, like the one i suggested to u.
Well a little step, will get us further. To start with special reporter could be a beginning. -
The Ha.ckers and Crossfire….. a never ending Story
I must say: In all online Games we have Ha.ckers. And in Free to play Games, we have many Ha.ckers. That is the system. If the Ha.ckers Account banned, they create a new Account and Ha.ck again.
No.obs take the full Ha.ck and you can see it in a view second. They shoot through walls or speed up. But the new Ha.cks are smarter. Lock at youtube and you will see that you can choose how the Ha.ck works. No recoil, No Granade DMG, Aim.bot (only 3 Bullet hits you) …. So it is not always easy to decide if the player Ha.cks.
I think today in crossfire use more than 40 % a Ha.ck. The Bacider is right. Z8 Games must take control of the Ha.ckers.
I am Lieutenant from German Bobs. We play since 2009. We like to play fair and we hate Ha.ckers. We reported so many Ha.ckers wish Ha.ck so conspicuous and often they are not banned. Today I don’t report Ha.ckers. It is like do nothing.
My suggestion is, if you want to play on the Clanwar server you must register your account a second time on Z8 Games. Then you must pay 5 Euro. On the Clan war server are only the weapons are arrival which are allowed in WCG or ESL. If you use a Ha.ck ---> your Account is permanently banned.
If Z8 Games do nothing like now, then Crossfire becomes like Warrock. All are Ha.cking and Crossfre die! No one want to play this crap!
If Z8 Games do something then crossfire would be a good game.
So Z8 Game choose your way!!! -
I really agree with this idea.
It's hard to find people to trust, so how about trusting people you know 100% are legit? For example.... [size="4]competition players[/size]
They generally know the difference between legit and haqking because they have to understand the recoil, power, etc. of each gun they use to do good with it, SO-
Find some fair players (I suggest looking at competition players) with good sport,
and give them a power lower than the MODS. Maybe put a marker next to their ign like [OF] for Officer or something, or make another team like you did MODS? Idk. Whatever works best.. -
Phillybear wrote: »- Z8Games doesn't want to give normal players the power to ban.
They don't want to do a lot of things and the end result is CF as it is now, in bad shape.Phillybear wrote: »- There is no way to track how often these players kick someone out of a room with their powers or why they kick them.
They shouldn't have kick powers only ban powers, and they need proof in case the ban is disputed (no proof the ban is overturned).
There is no point to kicking hackers, glitchers if you can simply ban them.Phillybear wrote: »- Z8 doesn't know how certain people are in game. I've seen people that appear quite mature and then out of the blue, they start swearing like a little kid with Tourettes.
And a few things can be done to limit that i.e bans require proof and they should be limited in the amount of bans they can give per day incase they went on a troll ban spree. -
I think there is a way these ideas could be implemented along with the others from similar threads. Here's the problems you have to deal with.... who will police the police? Once they get the name of a mod they will be spammed and bothered beyond belief with complaints. Hundreds of tells from people saying come to my room there's a hacker! etc etc. Can you imagine? The theory is great but trying to sensibly implement is another can of worms all together. Until a solid plan can be made and put into place everyone will just have to work with the systems that are already in place, like them or not.
-
well, of course this could be a problem. But why think that big at the start. To begin with a small group *20 players* as i mentioned, can still be watched through gms. I already said if they just ban obvious h.acks, maximium 12 each, which isnt that problem to find / it will already have a impact on the situation. It would be enough to test it and to experiment the problems with it. Additionally the report management can prove the work of these officers right away. After this test period more rights can be given and just in case of a veto of a banned player overviewed by the report management.
As i said i dont want mods to do it, i want competetive and fair player to do it. And the chat can be turned off in the options, so it wont be a problem, that they get spammned. For this test period i wouldnt mark these players. They should be no difference to other players. So a h.acker doesnt turn off or play smart.
In the beginning their reports just get a higher priority than others, so the quality of their attempts for a ban can be proved. After that they can get more and more independent from beeing controlled everytime.
Step by step will have the most success, instead to reach all in an instant. -
It's true that experienced players can differntiate hackers and legit people better, but it doesn't apply to all experienced players... Many high ranks still call everyone that kills them a hacker.Experienced player can better difference between h.ack or not. So this can be a first test for the ingame police, and the people who actually do it. A more effective way of reporting. U are right if u say, even this can get too much, but the number of officer can be limited, even their reports per day can be limited. Such a group can better be organized and will work more effective !
It shall finally end in a real ingame police, therefore i take the name ingame officer, which can kick on sight and ban easier *with an uploaded replay to secure their desision* of course.
Are you talking about 12 each day? Or 12 in total. Because 12 hackers each day would add up to watching 240 replays each day....well, of course this could be a problem. But why think that big at the start. To begin with a small group *20 players* as i mentioned, can still be watched through gms. I already said if they just ban obvious h.acks, maximium 12 each
- You can't just assume that competitive players are fair. After all, several competitive players have been banned for hacking or have admitted to using hacks.
It's hard to find people to trust, so how about trusting people you know 100% are legit? For example.... [size="4]competition players[/size]
Find some fair players (I suggest looking at competition players) with good sport,
and give them a power lower than the MODS. Maybe put a marker next to their ign like [OF] for Officer or something, or make another team like you did MODS? Idk. Whatever works best..
- Competitive players are generally playing less pubs than other active players. So they would meet less hackers than the average player would.
- MODs don't have any ingame powers, so I'm not sure how you can give someone "lower power than mods". As far as I know, even GMs don't have ingame powers (based on Hpx not insta-kicking a hacker, but leaving the game to go ban a hacker)
I wouldn't give them the power to immediatly ban, just a priority report as Bacider suggested. Even if it would take 2 days for a hacker to get banned, it would still be a lot faster than bans happen in the current situation.They shouldn't have kick powers only ban powers, and they need proof in case the ban is disputed (no proof the ban is overturned).
There is no point to kicking hackers, glitchers if you can simply ban them.
And a few things can be done to limit that i.e bans require proof and they should be limited in the amount of bans they can give per day incase they went on a troll ban spree.
- As I said, competitive players might not always be the best persons for this.As i said i dont want mods to do it, i want competetive and fair player to do it.
For this test period i wouldnt mark these players. They should be no difference to other players. So a h.acker doesnt turn off or play smart.
In the beginning their reports just get a higher priority than others, so the quality of their attempts for a ban can be proved. After that they can get more and more independent from beeing controlled everytime.
- I wouldn't mark the players at all, not during the test period, not after the test period. As a matter of fact, it would even be better if their IGN was kept secret from all other players. (wouldn't be the first F2P game that gave more powers to players under conditions of strict secrecy). This would avoid them getting spammed.
- Don't make them independent... It might take more time to ban a hacker if all of their reports have to be reviewed, but it would guarantee the justness of the bans.
Just for reference, could a MOD, if they are allowed to do so, give us a list of what the in-game/reporting differences are between a MOD and a random player?
It would be silly if we start suggesting things that are actually already part of the MOD title....
This discussion has been closed.
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