Trade Accounts

The account isn't owned by me, it's more of a lease kind of deal. Yes I do have control on all of it, but if the GM's want it back, hell there's nothing I can do about it.

The regular legit player has nothing to worry about. If the GM's DO decide to take away that regular legit player's account, they will for sure have to provide proper reasoning to take such action on someone so innocent.

As I see it, your problem is the legal definition of "property" and how it is being used within the Terms and Conditions agreement?
I would then suggest to PM a GM or send in a ticket under Complaints to get further inquiry about that.

Again, I understand:

So if they don't delete my account at this very moment (obviously they won't) because they say they own it, what's the point in owning my account in the first place?

It is your choice to play this game. If you choose to play the game, and create an account, then Z8 will offer you such an account for you to use and play on provided you abide by the Agreement laid out prior to creating the account.

I think of it as a lease, sorry not a TimeShare .
You may live in that apt, and put stuff in there, and even set fire to it, but it is NOT your apt, though you may be able to claim it as YOURS via insurance policies and such.

You own it, but don't own it at the same time. Yea it's confusing.

And no worries on your English, it's pretty well typed out.

In the end, the ownership is made quite clear in this clause:

Ownership
For all games, properties, titles, and services operating under Z8Games, including but not limited to and without limitation; user accounts, game/computer code, game items/objects, characters, character names, character profile information, clans/guilds and their names, game replays/recordings, art, game assets, music, visual effects, documentation, story, game sounds, chat room transcripts, or anything else provided by our services and games are owned by Z8Games and/or its respective developers and partners. These Games and Services are protected by Canadian and international laws, and may contain certain licensed materials in which Z8Games's licensors may enforce their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement.

Again, if you have any discrepancies with this or any other parts of the Agreement, take it up to a higher level to a GM or through support. I am not a Z8Games employee and cannot make statements that can otherwise be false to the company

@Aweez: This is just on the legal side of things.

one_9 wrote: »

You own it, but don't own it at the same time. Yea it's confusing.
/QUOTE]

That's exactly what I meant, it doesn't make sense. Even more confusing: they specifically say "in the event of any breaking of this agreement". I don't break this agreement, so they don't do whatever they want with my account. That literally means that it's NOT their property, because if it was, they could do it without any notification. Weird, ain't it?

[MOD]dot wrote: »

The "in the event of any breaking of this agreement" is a courtesy clause, simply because G4 have no interest in your account as long as you don't violate the Terms of use.

There that's the answer. AS LONG AS YOU DON'T VIOLATE THE TERMS OF USE!

ExeuntOmnes wrote: »

That still doesn't make any sense. Having no interest in a thing doesn't mean that you won't break this thing at some point, because it belongs to you, it's your property. So if I break the terms and conditions my account is their property, but if I don't, it's not? It's a question of logic. Not closing an account just because the one who created that account never broke the rules defies the word property.

Or because you're extremely insignificant and as long as you behave, nobody will waste time on you.

Its G4 property regardless - but that doesn't mean they have to use it once an hour to maintain dibs.

ExeuntOmnes wrote: »

I was being decent and having a conversation on the definition of the word "property". In case you never figured out that we, the "extremely insignificant", are the main reason why YOU are still playing this game because we spend money and with our money this game is evolving, then I am asking Z8 for an official position on this matter. I also ask on the forum if the "extremely insignificant" term describing a player that has never been banned is the official Z8 position regarding such a player. Furthermore, I am asking if this "behave and nobody will waste time on you" is the official position of G4Box when they officially refer to a regular legitimate player. I also made screenshots and I will send this conversation to support for further info regarding this issue.

Suggest that G4 employs trickery when it comes to your account and your right to use it, get replies accordingly.

Of course its not their position, its entirely mine. As I've explained countless times, I'm not affiliated with G4Box or "Z8Games".


Their official position is the one you're questioning, the Terms of Use.
You don't need to constantly maintain property in order for it to be referred to as property.
G4 does not get involved with your account, which is one of many, many thousands (insignificant), unless you do something wrong.
Spending time on an account that has done nothing wrong is indeed - inarguably to me, clearly not to you - time wasted.
Time spent on someone in violation of the ToU is time well-spent, as its most likely a cheater being dealt with.

Inconclusive wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with it.

Its mainly there to protect the users. If accounts were user property, there would be no protection against scams and account loss.

[MOD]dot wrote: »

As I've explained countless times, I'm not affiliated with G4Box or "Z8Games".

That doesn't mean I don't have the right to ask, and to prove once again that you didn't even understood the discussion, I am not complaining about terms and conditions, I am complaining about you.
Also you misspelled the word "unarguably".

ExeuntOmnes wrote: »

That doesn't mean I don't have the right to ask, and to prove once again that you didn't even understood the discussion, I am not complaining about terms and conditions, I am complaining about you.
Also you misspelled the word "unarguably".

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve, but go for it.
Complaints against mods are to be brought up with Saidin though, not support staff.
And a complaint about semantics strikes me as more time wasted.


Argue, derived from the latin "arguō".
In, latin, "against".
Inarguable.
Unarguable works too, but its wrong.
"didn't even understood" is de facto faulty English, but I'm not one to sink to the level of grammatical corrections to derail the discussion.

FYI While the accounts remain our property and we have the right to do with them as we please (as many of the clauses in our agreements point to). Specifically relating to trading, the problem with it is; is the sharing of account information.


If you make an account, you know all the information on it. Plus we have all the account creation records that supplement it (for example IP information). This information should remain in the hands of the account creator only.


If you then trade that information to someone then 2 or more people have access to the information on it, however there is now creation and security information discrepancies.


It is not our job, or our responsibility to sort out "who was right or wrong" in this case. Rules are created to prevent this kind of thing happening so when an account gets traded, and both players either start changing information on the account, whine about wanting their account back or otherwise have problems with things like hacking, banning, point purchasing etc etc then our answer is simply: "You have shared your account information in a manner which shows that multiple people other than the original account creator have been on this account. Therefore no support will be given." Or the accounts will be closed.


Dot is also correct in that the way the agreements are designed are such that if there is never any issue with an account then the account will likely not have any action taken upon it (hacking obviously remains the exception and is dealt with differently).

For example, you give your account to your best friend. We really can't physically stop you from doing this. However when your friend sells your favorite gun and bought 5 gp crates with it and you come to us saying "My brother sold my favorite weapon on my account, I would like it back." Then our answer is "Tough Luck, you should not have given your account information to anyone."

We look at in this example, anything from the sale information (by checking the database for when the item was sold, what was bought with the gp, the gp records of the account etc etc). As well as IP information for the computers that made the sales during that time, where they were connected from. Plus a whole host of other data that can indicate the account was shared.

Not only can we say "actions of this type are not refundable, ie if you sell your weapon it is final in the same way as if you bought it." we can also say "we are not responsible for the actions taken on this account by users other than yourself. You have given away the secure information of the account and it has become compromised. Unfortunately during that time someone sold your weapon." Tough Luck, you shared your account. Consider yourself lucky you can still log in with it. And you thought this was your best friend?


The moment that we cannot figure out who actually owns an account, which is done through a process of looking at our records and asking you the person on the account about the information contained on it (security questions etc), we can deny service, close the account and be done with the issue. It is your responsibility to keep your own account secure.

It should also be noted that account security issues are the #1 issue we deal with. We try to force account security in to everyone's head, however people still seem to think that www.iwant******itemsincrossfire.com is a legitimate z8games website to enter in their account information expecting free weapons.


Lastly, a note about account hacking. Accounts do not get hacked. If you enter your information into a site like the above and loose your account it did not get hacked. You volunteered that information to someone else who used it against you. The simple fact is that there are accounts that are "worth more" than yours in the game and those accounts have never been hacked. Why is that? Why would someone want to hack your account that only has 5 guns when they could 'hack' someone else's account who has 25 guns. Well the answer is the person with 25 guns who didn't get 'hacked' has never shared their account information with anyone.



TL : DR

If you share accounts with anyone you compromise the account information. It is against the rules and not only can it result in the accounts being closed, it will surely result in a lack of support given for the account.

1. Accounts do not get hacked.
2. Don't trade or share your account.
3. Don't give your account info away to anyone.
4. Don't enter your account info into any other site other than www.z8games.com.