Suggestion to change system
I am literally laughing in my seat as I watch threads get closed for political talk because only a month and a half before, they're was a PLETHORA of threads which talked about 9/11 and the horror of that, but when its a talk about how Constitutional rights get taken away, or how a certain dicator died, or how a nation is gaining success in their newly established democratic nation, then the thread gets closed?
"Touchy subject" Is that not what 9/11 is? or am I missing something.
Now, I'm not irritated or frustrated at all, but the constant holding of a double standard is quite great to witness. The hilarity is priceless. People that certain individuals don't like get infracted to the point of being banned whereas others are slapped on the wrist and are able to continue their violations for the sole reason of being liked by certain individuals.
All I am suggesting is that there is a complete overhaul of the current system of rules and ban offense system and to create one based on practicality.
Why can we not talk about Kim Jong, but have not just one, but several, threads in "Honor of 9/11".
I don't see why a discussion about a particular event can't be discussed as long is isn't going to insult or "hurt" anyone. How is "Kim Jong Ill is dead" going to hurt anyone? It only gives an announcement.
But more importantly, because if the Off topic becomes this, then every thread ever made will just be a waste of space and have no real place to grow intellectually. (In before, why would you do that here). The spectrum of threads going to be a place of "what is your favorite color" and "I need help on computers derp" type threads.
Thats my half a cent. If you have something to say, please provide your valuable insight.
"Touchy subject" Is that not what 9/11 is? or am I missing something.
Now, I'm not irritated or frustrated at all, but the constant holding of a double standard is quite great to witness. The hilarity is priceless. People that certain individuals don't like get infracted to the point of being banned whereas others are slapped on the wrist and are able to continue their violations for the sole reason of being liked by certain individuals.
All I am suggesting is that there is a complete overhaul of the current system of rules and ban offense system and to create one based on practicality.
Why can we not talk about Kim Jong, but have not just one, but several, threads in "Honor of 9/11".
I don't see why a discussion about a particular event can't be discussed as long is isn't going to insult or "hurt" anyone. How is "Kim Jong Ill is dead" going to hurt anyone? It only gives an announcement.
But more importantly, because if the Off topic becomes this, then every thread ever made will just be a waste of space and have no real place to grow intellectually. (In before, why would you do that here). The spectrum of threads going to be a place of "what is your favorite color" and "I need help on computers derp" type threads.
Thats my half a cent. If you have something to say, please provide your valuable insight.
Comments
-
Brought to you by yours truly [MOD]Hi.
http://www.youtuberepeater.com/watch?v=wbGJCT3R154&name=Soulja+Boy+Speakers+Going+Hammer
No but seriously...
The double standard is getting outrageous.
First it was:
No talk about illegal substances and in the case of underage. Except when its a dude that just felt like acting intoxicated on the net.
Then it was:
Don't discuss other games. Except when I want to.
Now its:
No politics, except when it emotionally affects me and the others to the point that I agree that it should be discussed about. -
For me, what I usually try to do is moderate those kind of threads if it's only a handful of people that are causing issues with it.
We do not mind well thought out and well said replies to certain threads,we love to see some of the maturity and thoughts of community members, however there's just certain people that love to ruin that kind of thread.
Some moderators just close/delete the threads because of the exact rule and other moderators don't then undo what they did and try to moderate it the best they can because then it can cause some issues with cross moderating and one moderator seeing it one way, one another.
There's a point in time where if the thread is going somewhere decent and getting a good discussion, we don't mind moderating it now and then and let the talk be discussed, however some events we feel are to "soon" or "touchy" in regards where we know that at this point in time all it will be is a bunch of members trying to be a bad person, putting it in a nice way.
I remember that 9/11 time well, I also remember the hell it caused us about a year ago I believe it was and the chaos it created then for us with members getting angry we were dealing their "honest opinions" about the event. And I do believe some Moderators are trying to just avoid this all together so we will not get incidents like that and just close them before anything does happen.
In the end, the gaming community forums for Z8Games really isn't the place to discuss these kind of things. It's great to get news out and have a great discussion, I love a great debate myself, however we just have to many people that want to be "funny, cool", etc, and ruin it.
As for what you say about punishments and such, it's kinda a complex area. When we take into account rules members have broken, we do not just take into consideration of what exact rule did he/she break according to the Forum Rules & Conduct. We also try to see okay, what is this member's past? He he/she been banned for such a rule break before? Have they been a positive part to the community? Are they new? Are they old enough to know the rules well?
This is why it agitates me when a member "Reports" someone to me via PM and copy/pastes an infraction that "they should get". We try to be somewhat lenient to new members and members who have been a good help before. If it is something bad, we will straight up infract them, such as if they post nude pictures. However, if they have never had one ban before, been with us for months/years, have time and time again been an influential and positive part of this community, one minor thing like swearing once, might be just warned that one time. If they do it again, they will receive an infraction, and most likely a greater one since we warned them.
The vBulletin infraction system comes with the built in warning system, some of the Mods like to use it, some don't. These warnings do not accumulate for infractions, however do serve as a record for future references. Sometimes however, if it is so minor, we just Private Message them, or talk to them by some other means and warn them.
We understand that sometimes members need to let some steam out, had a bad day, whatever, and some of us believe in giving some lenience time to time. Like I said though, only for very minor offences.
When a Moderator does become a Moderator, certain things like friendship is never supposed to even be brought into account when looking at an infraction/ban. And if you do believe someone is playing a great favoritism, you should discuss it with a Moderator who'm you trust will take care of it, or a forum Administrator.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from this, I don't have as much time as I would like to answer your post in a very long fashion, however I do believe I got my main points across. -
Giggletron wrote: »Rex he has a point.... unfortunately.
I'm not saying he doesn't, I do understand where he's coming from, and I do see it happening from time to time. And it cannot be denied that I have been in that circle in the past as well.
There is two main points I wanted people to get out of my post.
The first being that, we want members to feel free to be able to post a bit more freely now and then, however there's just certain lines we have to draw because the forums are for "Z8Games Community Discussion". And some mods just draw that line closer than others. This line is usually drawn closer because of other members causing un-needed issues.
The second being that, if they feel a moderator, or any staff member for that matter, is playing some kind of favoritism or bending the rules for certain people/things, they need to speak up to another Moderator or Administrator that they know will take care of it. -
Not really giggle, leniency is an important and integral part of any system like this.
People like iPhoenix or myself, and PLENTY of others would have all been banned long ago, and the reality is all of those people make up the "regular" forumer scene, without us the forum is left up to be nothing but the barracks, which isn't really a BAD thing. It just isn't really a forum anymore. Not to mention often the regular forumers help out themselves when the mods aren't on. Resolving issues and redirecting players to support.
Often times like Rex said there are moderators keeping a good eye on threads that are borderline. Like dot with Moch's Iraq war thread, he kept it clean and when he knew he couldn't any longer he closed it. Simple.
Debate's like this should be encouraged, but Jafrikan you are missing the problem, look at the Kim Jong threads, all you see are insults towards the man who just died. That isn't debate, it's disrespect and in fairness no matter who it is that died it is wrong. -
Poweredinfo wrote: »As long as the sheep mentality exists and pre teens are present there can never be an open thread discussing hypothesis on current world phenomena
Which is why moderation exists, if a moderator is on to keep an eye on a particular thread and isn't busy then there is no issue. -
Which is why moderation exists, if a moderator is on to keep an eye on a particular thread and isn't busy then there is no issue.
But good moderation does not mean pedantry.
Moderation of topics through the unique situation each thread holds would be optimum.
But I would be blind to say this doesn't already happen,What I am saying is that it doesn't happen enough. -
I need to keep working on my term paper, but I wanted to also state one more thing.
The Moderation team is more or less in charge of the forums. (Not the back-end of course). However things like new rules, and new ways to handle things are often discussed with us before actually being put live.
If you have an idea on how we could do something, Moderators are usually more than happy to listen to your thoughts, contribute and criticize, and let it be discussed. We then take it up to consideration between the Mod team and talk about it, then propose it to the Administration team. And example of when we did this is with the Draft thread in the Competitive section of the forums. That was an idea from the Moderation team and is now being executed to try to keep that section a bit more organized, and for the most part it has worked out well.
The forums are something we can tamper with ideas more easily with than in game, and is something that definitely involves the community members and the staff. All we need is good input from the community and we can discuss it. However, it is not something that will be looked at if it's put into a negative light by the people, or just won't work for various other reason. It also won't be taken into affect the day it's proposed. We want good critique about it so we can iron it out before executing. -
Poweredinfo wrote: »But good moderation does not mean pedantry.
Moderation of topics through the unique situation each thread holds would be optimum.
But I would be blind to say this doesn't already happen,What I am saying is that it doesn't happen enough.
well it is up to each particular MOD, you can't have a set of guidelines because the guidelines are bendable, that's the point.
Talon is known for immediately closing such threads whereas Dot leaves them open and moderates them, Hi doesn't moderate them, but will often close them immediately if the OP is rude or offensive. Rory leaves things open unless they cross the people posting start to cross the line.
Edit: Rex what's your xfire? -
Debate's like this should be encouraged, but Jafrikan you are missing the problem, look at the Kim Jong threads, all you see are insults towards the man who just died. That isn't debate, it's disrespect and in fairness no matter who it is that died it is wrong.
This isn't to say that I'm discussing a previous ban but I got banned for posting a Ron Paul vid.
How is that insulting someone? How??!?!?
And as far as I'm concerned this:The second being that, if they feel a moderator, or any staff member for that matter, is playing some kind of favoritism or bending the rules for certain people/things, they need to speak up to another Moderator or Administrator that they know will take care of it.
gets no where. We all know that Saidin isn't here half the time and takes the word of Mods to be true regardless of the situation.
Not to say that all the Mods are terrible, but each one with the exception of Rory and Rex, I have seen quite questionable blocks and bans. Or, they aren't even active. Yeah you Mods know who you are.
All I have to say for that is the multiple standards of contradictory actions taken. We all know that if I where to post on the topic of Alcohol or acted like I was intoxicated over the net, which I don't even know how you would, then I would get infracted.
I got infracted for posting a picture at one point. Quite hilarious. -
well it is up to each particular MOD, you can't have a set of guidelines because the guidelines are bendable, that's the point.
Talon is known for immediately closing such threads whereas Dot leaves them open and moderates them, Hi doesn't moderate them, but will often close them immediately if the OP is rude or offensive. Rory leaves things open unless they cross the people posting start to cross the line.
Edit: Rex what's your xfire?
Yes,but this community lacks the maturity to talk about a controversial topic [lets say abortion] without resorting to personal insults.Which is why [we] the small percentage of this community that can actually hold a descent conversation without resorting to such things are massively effected in terms of communication of thought. -
Poweredinfo wrote: »Yes,but this community lacks the maturity to talk about a controversial topic [lets say abortion] without resorting to personal insults.Which is why [we] the small percentage of this community that can actually hold a descent conversation without resorting to such things are massively effected in terms of communication of thought.
Yes its possible.
Its the lack of a Mod that can effectively "Moderate" which is the fault.
Instead of deleting threads and getting rid of the less educated, it becomes a close thread and ban OP situation as usual. That was the case with my "I'm a Genius" thread which for whatever reason I didn't even discuss thread ban but I got banned for it. Irony was that it wasn't even me. -
RawrJafrikan wrote: »Yes its possible.
Its the lack of a Mod that can effectively "Moderate" which is the fault.
Instead of deleting threads and getting rid of the less educated, it becomes a close thread and ban OP situation as usual. That was the case with my "I'm a Genius" thread which for whatever reason I didn't even discuss thread ban but I got banned for it. Irony was that it wasn't even me.
Like I said, some Mods will allow for threads like that, some won't.
Talon is a bit of stickler, not that it's a BAD thing, it just works better in barracks than offtopic. I understand that he tries to keep his moderation unbiased but it really doesn't work in forums.
Dot is definitely the most lenient. -
RawrJafrikan wrote: »gets no where. We all know that Saidin isn't here half the time and takes the word of Mods to be true regardless of the situation.
Not to say that all the Mods are terrible, but each one with the exception of Rory and Rex, I have seen quite questionable blocks and bans. Or, they aren't even active. Yeah you Mods know who you are.
All I have to say for that is the multiple standards of contradictory actions taken. We all know that if I where to post on the topic of Alcohol or acted like I was intoxicated over the net, which I don't even know how you would, then I would get infracted.
I got infracted for posting a picture at one point. Quite hilarious.
Saidin is on as often as he can be, however he is the Game Manager and is quite a busy man. The Moderation team is in charge of moderating, and his trust is put in us, and trust me, when we do something wrong, we know it.
He does have a trust within us, however when we bring up an issue, we are required to have some sort of evidence, unless he already knows about it because it's a big issue. And if you don't feel like it will get through, discuss it with a Moderator you know well first, and see if he will back you. We as Moderators all get along, but we realize that we cannot allow one moderator to get away with something even if he is our friend, as one moderator represents the moderation team as a whole, and if one or a few make a mistake, we are all noted of.
A good moderator does not care if he/she loses his/her position or "friend" over an event, he/she was brought into the moderation team and needs to be mutual and will discuss what needs to be discussed if it is seen as an issue. -
A good moderator does not care if he/she loses his/her position or "friend" over an event, he/she was brought into the moderation team and needs to be mutual and will discuss what needs to be discussed if it is seen as an issue.
Is this statement not obvious?
So I'm taking this as a statement of intent that I am allowed to create threads concerning possibly controversial topics as long as the debate/discussion is clean and creates an environment of intellectual growth and inquiry.
You should be seeing a thread soon. -
RawrJafrikan wrote: »Yes its possible.
Its the lack of a Mod that can effectively "Moderate" which is the fault.
Instead of deleting threads and getting rid of the less educated, it becomes a close thread and ban OP situation as usual. That was the case with my "I'm a Genius" thread which for whatever reason I didn't even discuss thread ban but I got banned for it. Irony was that it wasn't even me.
Yes I agree,but this golden moderator doesn't completely exist
I believe that each mod is more or less suited for a different section maybe it would be easy on them if they would each focus on a specific section
eg.It's hard for a mod that only deals with barracks to step in and deal with competitive
But then a problem is proposed
what happens when that mod isn't on
I suppose they can have some sort of rotation schedule where'st they can get used to every section.
This idea is great but at the moment I am to weary to actually refine it,Take it and run with it my fellow anglophones.RawrJafrikan wrote: »You should be seeing a thread soon.
I concur. -
I agree with powered to be honest.
Talon - Barracks
Rex - Offtopic and Barracks
Rory - Fan Works and Off topic
Dot - Off Topic
Polleus - Competitive
Iceman - Competitive
Hi - Fan Works and Competitive
Deadeye - Is he ever even here?
User - ... never see him around.
Not that all mods can't moderate all sections, especially if another mod isn't on.
It's just that certain mods should focus more on particular sections. -
RawrJafrikan wrote: »So I'm taking this as a statement of intent that I am allowed to create threads concerning possibly controversial topics as long as the debate/discussion is clean and creates an environment of intellectual growth and inquiry.
If you could make that happen, yes. However, I do not recommend a topic on North Korea at this time as you will find that it will not be kept to good standards at this time, and it will end up in us sadly having to close it as we can't be looking at one thread twenty-four seven.
What can I recommend? Maybe a discussion on how we could eventually come up with a way on how we could go about being able to have such conversations with as little rule breaking as possible.
Even if that includes a Moderator making a thread Moderated and posts will only be seen after their post is accepted by a moderator.
That however as you can see as a starting idea, has it's issues. Such as certain mods having certain views on subjects and not believing that a certain post should be allowed because their point of view is different. -
If
Yes,but I assume that as a moderator you all have enough understanding to know that your point of view isn't the only point of view,as a matter of fact it is pretty insignificant compared to the 6+ Billion other points of views.
My only hope is that moderators escape the ever growing grasp of pedantry. -
The rules are stated clearly, when it says no political or religious discussions I take it to heart and carry through with that. I have nothing against debates, I enjoy them, however only as long as they pertain to the CoC that was set.
There's a reason it was posted there. Chances are previous teams tried to let it slide and only resulted in insults, flaming and infractions that could have otherwise been avoided. The community simply isn't mature enough to handle those kinds of topics, so its easier to not let them happen at all.
![Blackcow]](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e/?default=https%3A%2F%2Fvanillicon.com%2Fda39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890_200.png&rating=g&size=200)
![[MOD]Rex](https://z8games.akamaized.net/cfna/forum/customavatars/68/navatar_3617368.gif){kind=avatar}
Categories
- All Categories
- Z8Games
- Off-Topic - Go To Game OT Forums
- 1 Z8 Forum Discussion & Suggestions
- 16 Z8Games Announcements
- Rules & Conduct
- 5.2K CrossFire
- 955 CrossFire Announcements
- 950 Previous Announcements
- 2 Previous Patch Notes
- 1.4K Community
- 122 Modes
- 602 Suggestions
- 85 Clan Discussion and Recruitment
- 274 CF Competitive Forum
- 19 CFCL
- 26 Looking for a Team?
- 705 CrossFire Support
- 52 Suggestion
- 116 Bugs
- 29 CrossFire Guides
- 166 Technical Issues
- 47 CrossFire Off Topic