Winchester (One Shot Rifle, or Shotgun)

I just want to clear things up with the CF Community.

Alot of us, including me, have seen to misread what the Winchester is. Without even learning History, we can see that this gun is:
1.a One shot kill
2.Looks like it is"Pump" Action (Looks deceiving, really it's just the animation to let the bullet case fall out)
3.And bad at long ranges.

I have categorized it as a shotgun ever since. Here is a part of the conversation with my friend. (Lol, I know, I'm a big subject changer.)

Dialog

Him: How's your girl doing.
Me: I am looking to inquire a shotgun, should I buy the Winchester Scope or the Dual Despies
Him (Facepalmed) :The Winchester is a rifle "@sswipe";
I said, "Bet 10 dollar U.S. right now"
Him: Bet
(Character Shakes Hands)
-> long story short, I lost my 10 bucks, and it is a rifle <-
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Comments

  • eCookie wrote: »
    I just want to clear things up with the CF Community.

    Alot of us, including me, have seen to misread what the Winchester is. Without even learning History, we can see that this gun is:
    1.a One shot kill
    2.Looks like it is"Pump" Action (Looks deceiving, really it's just the animation to let the bullet case fall out)
    3.And bad at long ranges.

    I have categorized it as a shotgun ever since. Here is a part of the conversation with my friend. (Lol, I know, I'm a big subject changer.)

    Dialog

    Him: How's your girl doing.
    Me: I am looking to inquire a shotgun, should I buy the Winchester Scope or the Dual Despies
    Him (Facepalmed) :The Winchester is a rifle "@sswipe";
    I said, "Bet 10 dollar U.S. right now"
    Him: Bet
    (Character Shakes Hands)
    -> long story short, I lost my 10 bucks, and it is a rifle <-

    Finally. Someone that KNOWs.
  • ZeromedZeromed Knight-Errant
    cccool9252 wrote: »
    Finally. Someone that KNOWs.

    Yea 10 bucks later -_-
  • Lee_SinLee_Sin Apprentice
    winchester have both 1 shot rifle + shotgun
  • eCookie wrote: »
    I just want to clear things up with the CF Community.

    Alot of us, including me, have seen to misread what the Winchester is. Without even learning History, we can see that this gun is:
    1.a One shot kill
    2.Looks like it is"Pump" Action (Looks deceiving, really it's just the animation to let the bullet case fall out)
    3.And bad at long ranges.

    I have categorized it as a shotgun ever since. Here is a part of the conversation with my friend. (Lol, I know, I'm a big subject changer.)

    Dialog

    Him: How's your girl doing.
    Me: I am looking to inquire a shotgun, should I buy the Winchester Scope or the Dual Despies
    Him (Facepalmed) :The Winchester is a rifle "@sswipe";
    I said, "Bet 10 dollar U.S. right now"
    Him: Bet
    (Character Shakes Hands)
    -> long story short, I lost my 10 bucks, and it is a rifle <-

    I don't blame you, my brother and I would both categorize it as a shotgun, as it has all the requirements to be one. (except Spread)
  • well, shotgun is better than winchester in that case because if you missed that near shot with winchester the enemy would have no damage but if with a shotgun he might have some damage if he didn't target him well. so, if the enemy you are shooting on have 1 HP it will be a pity if you use winchester and didn't get it, but if with shotgun and you spray it give more probability to kill that 1 HP enemy. It is like a noob guy in front of you who has 10 HP and you shot 7 shots with AWM but then you got him, you would certainly say why didn't i just used the pistol instead of all that hard work.
  • CF_JamilCF_Jamil Royal Heir
    In our version of CF it's more like a Rifle not a Shotgun. That's why it's called a Winchester Rifle not Winchester Shotgun.
  • ZeromedZeromed Knight-Errant
    Dr_Genedy wrote: »
    well, shotgun is better than winchester in that case because if you missed that near shot with winchester the enemy would have no damage but if with a shotgun he might have some damage if he didn't target him well. so, if the enemy you are shooting on have 1 HP it will be a pity if you use winchester and didn't get it, but if with shotgun and you spray it give more probability to kill that 1 HP enemy. It is like a noob guy in front of you who has 10 HP and you shot 7 shots with AWM but then you got him, you would certainly say why didn't i just used the pistol instead of all that hard work.

    Well, do you want to go Old School with the Winchester

    Or Be COol with a shotgun

    ur choice really
  • Toastz6Toastz6 Apprentice
    If it was a shotgun it would fire a scatter of bullets, since it just shoots
    a single shot it's a rifle.

    In other words if you were to c0ck a bolt on a sniper rifle would it make it a shotgun? Of course not. Ergo the winchester is a rifle. Also I know your going to say; "Oh it's a sniper then!" No, on our CF it's a mid range gun not a long distance gun. Even if it has a scope.
  • ReciprocalReciprocal Knight-Errant
    So your all missing one thing. The winchester is wall bang = 100% through crates, boxes, doors etc.
  • Just curious, but what's wrong with shotguns loaded with slugs, rather than shot? (need more slug shotguns :) )

    I think the winchester, judging by the viewmodel (1st person) looks like the Winchester Model 1873 rifle, but acts a lot more like a shotgun.
  • BlindNateBlindNate Royal Heir
    winchister is a rifle end of story first of all,winchister even on wiki is rifle.
    Why?
    because shotgun uses big shells not small ones.On winchister when u reload you can see small shells from it.

    How then winchister reloads like shotgun?

    the Winchester Model 1866- was famous for its rugged construction and lever-action mechanism that allowed the rifleman to fire a number of shots before having to reload: hence the term, "repeating rifle."

    So they did developd a weapon powerfull then shotgun with powerfull ammo.

    If you dont belive me go check here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_rifle
    everything is explained there all you must know how to use google and where to search for infos
  • its a lever rifle... and in its day it was seen as a great imrovment on standard bolt action rifles.
  • ZeromedZeromed Knight-Errant
    Just curious, but what's wrong with shotguns loaded with slugs, rather than shot? (need more slug shotguns :) )

    I think the winchester, judging by the viewmodel (1st person) looks like the Winchester Model 1873 rifle, but acts a lot more like a shotgun.

    Well, its debatable
  • ZeromedZeromed Knight-Errant
    DNatedogg wrote: »
    winchister is a rifle end of story first of all,winchister even on wiki is rifle.
    Why?
    because shotgun uses big shells not small ones.On winchister when u reload you can see small shells from it.

    How then winchister reloads like shotgun?

    the Winchester Model 1866- was famous for its rugged construction and lever-action mechanism that allowed the rifleman to fire a number of shots before having to reload: hence the term, "repeating rifle."

    So they did developd a weapon powerfull then shotgun with powerfull ammo.

    If you dont belive me go check here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_rifle
    everything is explained there all you must know how to use google and where to search for infos

    yh in olden times, they didnt have to technology to go fully auto
  • So does everyone agree that the devs butchered this weapon?
  • The Winchester rifle in CF isthe Model 1873. The shotgun is the Model 1887. Both are operated by lever action.
  • In common usage Winchester rifle usually means any of the lever-action rifles manufactured by the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, though the company has also manufactured many rifles of other action types. Winchester rifles were among the earliest repeating rifles; the Winchester repeater is colloquially known as "The Gun that Won the West" for its predominant role in the hands of Western settlers.

    he Winchester Model 1876 or Centennial Model was a heavier-framed rifle than the Model 1866 or Model 1873, and was the first to be chambered for full-powered centerfire rifle cartridges, as opposed to rimfire cartridges or handgun-sized centerfire rounds. And while similar in design to the 1873, the 1876 was actually based on the prototype 1868 lever-action rifle that was never commercially produced by Winchester.
    The 1876 was introduced to celebrate the American Centennial, and earned a reputation as a durable and powerful hunting rifle. Originally chambered for the new .45-75 WCF cartridge (designed to replicate the .45-70 Gov't ballistics in a shorter case), versions in .40-60, .45-60 and .50-95 Express followed; the '76 in the latter chambering is the only repeater known to have been used in any numbers by the professional buffalo hunters.[4] The Canadian North-West Mounted Police used the '76 in .45-75 as a standard long arm for many years with 750 rifles purchased for the force in 1883;[5] the Mountie-model '76 carbine was also issued to the Texas Rangers. Theodore Roosevelt used an engraved, pistol-gripped half-magazine '76 during his early hunting expeditions in the West and praised it. A '76 was also found in the possession of Apache warrior Geronimo after his surrender in 1886.[6]

    he Model 1886 continued the trend towards chambering heavier rounds, and had an all-new and considerably stronger locking-block action than the toggle-link Model 1876. It was designed by John Moses Browning, who had a long and profitable relationship with Winchester from the 1880s to the early 1900s. In many respects the Model 1886 was a true American express rifle, as it could be chambered in the more powerful black powder cartridges of the day, such as the .45-70 Government (chambering a rifle for the popular .45-70 had been a goal of Winchester for some time). The 1886 proved capable of handling not merely the .45 Gov't but also the huge .45-90 and .50-110 Express "buffalo" cartridges,[7][8] and in 1903 was chambered for the smokeless high-velocity .33 WCF. In 1935 Winchester introduced a slightly modified M1886 as the Model 71, chambered for the very powerful .348 Winchester cartridge.
    [edit]Winchester Model 1892
    Main article: Winchester Model 1892


    Winchester Model 1892
    Winchester returned to its roots with the Model 1892, which, like the first lever-action guns, was primarily chambered for shorter, lower-pressure handgun rounds. The Model 1892, however, incorporates a much stronger Browning action (based on the larger M1886) than the earlier Henry-derived arms of the 1860s and 1870s. 1,004,675 Model 1892 rifles were made by Winchester, and although the company phased them out in the 1930s, they are still being made under the Puma label by the Brazilian arms maker, Rossi, and by Chiappa Firearms, an Italian factory. In its modern form, using updated materials and production techniques, the Model 1892's action is strong enough to chamber high pressure handgun rounds, such as .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, and the high-powered .454 Casull round.
    [edit]Winchester Model 1894
    Main article: Winchester Model 1894


    Winchester Model 1894
    The John Browning designed Winchester Model 1894 is perhaps the best known of the Winchester repeating rifles. The Model 94 was chambered for the newly introduced smokeless .30-30 Winchester cartridge, and later, a variety of calibers such as .25-35 WCF, .32-40 WCF, .32 Winchester Special, and the .38-55. Winchester was the first company to manufacture a civilian rifle chambered for the new smokeless propellants, and although delays prevented the .30-30 cartridge from appearing on the shelves until 1895, it remained the first commercially available smokeless powder round for the North American consumer market. Though initially it was too expensive for most shooters, the Model 1894 went on to become one of the best-selling hunting rifles of all time—it has the distinction of being the first sporting/hunting rifle to sell over one million units, ultimately selling over seven million until US production was discontinued in 2006. A 2010 commemorative rifle has been produced to celebrate 200 years since Oliver F. Winchester's birth. The Winchester 94/.30-30 combination is practically synonymous with "deer rifle."
    [edit]Winchester Model 1895
    Main article: Winchester Model 1895
    The Winchester Model 1895 has the distinction of being the first Winchester lever-action rifle to load from a box magazine instead of a tube under the barrel. This allowed the Model 1895 to be chambered for military cartridges with spitzer (pointed) projectiles, and the rifle was used by the armed forces of a number of nations including the United States, Great Britain, and Imperial Russia. The Russian production models could also be loaded using charger clips, a feature not found on any other lever-action rifle. Calibers included .30-40 Krag (.30 US or .30 Army), .303 British, .30-03 Springfield, .30-06 Springfield, 7.62mm Russian, and the mighty .405 Winchester. Teddy Roosevelt used a Model 1895 in .405 on African safari, and called it his "Big Medicine" for lions.[9] In 1908 the 1895 Winchester became the first commercially produced sporting rifle chambered in .30-06 (then called ".30 Gov't 06").
    [edit]Winchester Model 88
    Introduced in 1955, sixty years after Winchester's last all-new lever-action design, the Model 88 was unlike any previous lever action; it was really a lever-bolt hybrid. A short-throw underlever operated a three-lug rotating bolt, and rounds were fed vertically from a detachable box magazine. These bolt-action features in a "lever-action" permitted the use of high-powered modern short-case cartridges with spitzer bullets: .243, .284, .308 (7.62mm NATO) and .358 Winchester. The 88 did not prove to be especially popular, although it has its share of devoted enthusiasts, and was discontinued in 1973. It is, however the third biggest selling lever action rifle in Winchester's storied history, following only the M1894 (1st) and M1892 (2nd). The later Sako Finnwolf and Browning BLR have similar actions. A Winchester Model 88 in .308 Caliber was used to harvest the current World Record Typical Whitetail Deer.
    [edit]Winchester Model 9422
    Winchester's Model 9422 was introduced in 1972 and was rapidly recognized for high quality. It was designed to capture the image of the traditional lever-actions with exposed hammer, straight grip, tube magazine and barrel bands. Unlike older Winchester lever actions it came grooved for scope mounting. It was offered in .22 Long Rifle and .22 WMR, and was priced at the high-quality end of the .22 sporting rifle market.
    The 9422 action design was original and extremely reliable. The feed system handled the cartridge from the magazine to the breech face by its rim, and the slide cammed the rear of the breechblock up into the locking recess. A concealed polymer buffer above the breech gave a firm-feeling lockup and a very positive unlocking motion.
    The 9422 had worldwide appeal to customers raised on 'westerns' and to those looking for a fun and historic way to introduce their children to shooting. Over the course of production a higher finished model called the 9422 XTR, a .17 rimfire model, and several commemorative models were offered. Production ended in 2005.[10]
    [edit]Winchester Model 1885 Single Shot Rifle

    Main article: Winchester Model 1885 Single Shot Rifle
    In 1885 Winchester entered the single-shot market with the Model 1885 rifle, which John Browning had designed in 1878 (the beginning of the fruitful 20-year Winchester-Browning collaboration). The Winchester Single Shot, known to most shooters as either the "Low-wall" or "High-wall" depending on model, but officially marketed by Winchester as the Single Shot Rifle, was produced to satisfy the demands of the growing sport of "Match Shooting", excelling at it, with Major Ned H. Roberts (inventor of the .257 Roberts cartridge) describing the Model 1885 Single Shot as "...the most reliable, strongest, and altogether best single shot rifle ever produced."[11] Winchester produced nearly 140,000 Single Shot rifles from 1885 to 1920, and it was found that the falling-block Model 1885 had been built with one of the strongest actions known at that time. Winchester also produced a large number of Single Shots in .22 Short for the US Army as a marksmanship training rifle, the "Winder musket."
    [edit]Winchester Bolt Action Rifles

    Winchester lever action rifles remained the most popular in the US through WWI and the interwar period. However, advances in the development of bolt action rifles made them increasingly preferred over lever actions. These new rifles, such as the Mauser Gewehr 98 and M1903 Springfield, could chamber pointed "Spitzer" bullets, which lever action rifles with tube magazines could not (a pointed bullet can accidentally fire the round in front of it in a tube magazine). Bolt actions as developed by Mauser and other military manufacturers had front locking lugs which stabilized the cartridge head very well, and allowed for unprecedented accuracy. Bolt actions were simpler and cheaper to manufacture than high-power leverguns like Winchester's 1886 and 1895 models.
    In response to the increasing competition from these bolt-action rifles, Winchester introduced the Winchester Model 54 in 1925. This was not Winchester's first bolt rifle (that distinction belonged to the Winchester-Hotchkiss rifle of 1878), but it was by far their most successful. It was based on the Mauser Gewehr 98 design, but with modifications and popular North American chamberings such as .30-06 which made it more appealing to American hunters than were the European imports or sporterised military rifles. The famed Model 70 was developed from the Model 54, which it replaced in 1936. The Model 70, often dubbed the "rifleman's rifle,"[12] was produced continuously at New Haven (except during WWII) until 2006, and production has resumed at FN Herstal's plant in Columbia, South Carolina.
    From 1900 Winchester manufactured cheap single shot .22 bolt action rifles, including the models 1900, 1902, 1904 and 99. On the other hand, in 1920 Winchester introduced the high-quality Model 52 .22 bolt action target rifle, which from its inception and for years thereafter was America's reference standard smallbore match rifle. A very desirable sporter model of this action was also made from 1934-59.[13]
    [edit]Winchester Self-Loading Rifles

    [edit]Winchester Models 1903 and 63
    Main article: Winchester Model 1903
    The Winchester Model 1903 was the first commercially available self-loading .22 rimfire caliber in the US. Designed by T.C. Johnson, the Model 1903 was chambered for the unique .22 Winchester Automatic cartridge. In 1919, the Model 1903 moniker was shortened to Model 03, and following a partial redesign in the 1930s, was renamed the Model 63. The Model 63, introduced in 1933, was chambered for the popular and widely available .22 Long Rifle cartridge. It was initially made with a 20" barrel, then with a 23" barrel from 1936 until the end of production in 1958. About 175,000 Model 63 rifles were manufactured, with the last 10,000 having grooved receiver tops for scope mounting. Both the 1903/03 and the 63 have tubular magazines in the butt stock of the rifle and are loaded through a slot in the right side of the butt stock.
    [edit]Winchester Models 1905, 1907, and 1910
    Main article: Winchester Model 1905
    Main article: Winchester Model 1907
    Main article: Winchester Model 1910
    The early center fire Winchester self-loading series of rifles began with the Model 1905, chambered for the .32SL and .35SL cartridges. Following a demand for a higher-powered self-loading rifle, the Models 1907 and 1910 were introduced along with their respective cartridges, the .351SL and .401SL.[14]
    [edit]Winchester repeating shotguns

    [edit]Winchester Model 1887/1901

  • Main article: Winchester Model 1887/1901
    The Winchester Model 1887 was the first successful repeating shotgun design, developed by John Browning and produced by Winchester from 1887-1920. Browning felt that a pump-action would be much more appropriate for a repeating shotgun, but as Winchester was primarily a lever-action firearms company they felt that their new shotgun must also be a lever-action for reasons of brand recognition. The M1887 was chambered for 12ga black powder shotshells, and after the switch to smokeless powder at the end of the 19th Century, the M1901 was introduced, being chambered for 10ga smokeless shells. Although a technically sound gun design, the market for lever-action shotguns waned considerably after the introduction of the Winchester 1897 and other contemporary pump-action shotguns; modern reproductions of the gun have been manufactured by Norinco in China, ADI Ltd. in Australia and Chiappa Firearms in Italy.
    [edit]Winchester Model 1893/1897
    Main article: Winchester Model 1897
    Another Browning design, the Winchester Model 1893 (and later Model 1897) was one of the first successful pump-action shotgun designs, being introduced in 1893 and remaining in production until the mid 1950s. Unusual for a repeating shotgun, the Model 1897 could be taken apart for easier carriage/storage, and was available in a variety of barrel lengths from 20in to 36in. During World War I it was issued as a trench gun, with short barrel, heat shield and M1917 bayonet.
    [edit]Winchester Model 1911
    Main article: Winchester Model 1911
    Winchester's long association with John Browning came to an end acrimoniously when the company refused to accept Browning's terms for the right to manufacture his revolutionary 1898 design for a self-loading shotgun; the landmark Browning Auto-5 was produced instead by Fabrique Nationale in Europe and later by Remington Arms in the US. However, Browning's semi-automatic patents had been so tightly drafted by Winchester's own lawyers that it took years for T. C. Johnson to develop a self-loading shotgun which didn't infringe them; this was the Model 1911 SL. The 1911 unfortunately was a flawed and potentially dangerous design, and was not a commercial success; it was dropped in 1925.
    [edit]Winchester Model 1912

    In the mid-to late 1950s, Winchester saw a management change which led to an extensive and extremely controversial[15] redesign of their firearms in 1964. This is regarded by many[16] as the year the "real" Winchester ceased to be, and consequently "pre-'64" rifles command higher prices than those made afterwards. Winchester itself went on to have a troubled future as competition from both the US and abroad began to decrease its sales. Although in the 1970s the company attempted to recover its reputation by bringing out the well-received SuperX-1 semiautomatic shotgun, produced along pre-1964 lines, the cost of manufacture again proved unsustainable. In 1980, the company was split into parts and sold off. The name "Winchester" remained with the ammunition making side of the company, and this branch continues to be profitable. The arms making side and New Haven facilities went to U.S. Repeating Arms, which struggled to keep the company going under a variety of owners and management teams. It finally announced plans to close the New Haven facility, the producers of the Model 1894, in 2006.
    On August 15, 2006, Olin Corporation, owner of the Winchester trademarks, announced that it had entered into a new license agreement with Browning to make Winchester brand rifles and shotguns, though not at the closed Winchester plant in New Haven. Browning, based in Morgan, Utah, and the former licensee, U.S. Repeating Arms Company, are both subsidiaries of FN Herstal. In 2008 FN Herstal announced plans to produce Model 70 rifles at its plant in Columbia, SC.
  • SurgedSurged Holy Knight
    Hitman did you copy and paste?

    OT: It's a rifle.
  • Surged wrote: »
    Hitman did you copy and paste?
    Thank you captain obvious
  • SurgedSurged Holy Knight
    Hitman_XV wrote: »
    Thank you captain obvious

    I was just asking.

    Didn't have to make it so harsh.
  • uDreamuDream Margrave
    Surged wrote: »
    Hitman did you copy and paste?

    OT: It's a rifle.
    Nah he typed this word for word on his own i bet ^^
  • VATAVVATAV Marquis
    Its a rifle that should be treated as a very precise shotgun.

    Main reason I bought Winchester scope was because I needed rifle kills but didn't like automatic weapons (I'm a shotgun, sniper, pistol type of player). It worked well for that intill I got my AK knife, knifing ghost is too addicting.

    It has shotgun damage and range damage loss, with pistol accuracy, and rifle badge kills.
  • ZeromedZeromed Knight-Errant
    uDream wrote: »
    Nah he typed this word for word on his own i bet ^^

    How much ^^
  • ZeromedZeromed Knight-Errant
    Reserved for further use
  • ZeromedZeromed Knight-Errant
    Reserved for further use
  • VATAVVATAV Marquis
    eCookie wrote: »
    How much ^^
    eCookie wrote: »
    Reserved for further use
    eCookie wrote: »
    Reserved for further use

    I'm scared, what could take 3 posts of space?

    Anyways the Winchesters should be treated like shotguns with the quirk of counting for soldier badge kills. The only reason I don't use my XM1014 is because it only counts as scout kills well my Deagle Camo counts for Scout, Assassin, and Sniper kills (second requirement for sniper is pistol kils), so SMGs and shotguns are less efficient compared to Pistols.

    Anyways here is how I'd rank the winchesters and the 3 GP shotguns.
    I have experience with all 5 and have owned them all at one point.

    Accuracy.
    Winchester Scope>Winchester>Dual Desp>Spas>XM1014
    (the Winchester scope is more precise for long range then Winchester normal)

    Damage. (they all 1 hit kill at short range tho, so this is a moot point.)
    Spas>Winchester>Winchester Scope>Dual Desp=XM1014 (XM10 and Duals both fire 6 pellets, well Spas fires 8. each pellet does the same amount of damage, so spas does 33% more damage then the other two)

    RPS or fire rate.
    XM1014>Winchester Scope=Winchester>Dual Desp>Spas

    Ammo. (Clip size really matters for shotguns more then total ammo)
    Winchester 12/36>Winchester Scope 10/30>Spas 8/36>Dual Desps 8/24>XM1014 6/32

    Reload.
    Dual Desp (reloads all 8 at once in 3 seconds)>Spas=XM1014=Winchester Scope (all reload at 1 bullet every 0.5 seconds)>Winchester (reloads at 1 bullet every 1 second).

    XM1014s advantage is fast fire rate, able to shoot twice as fast as the rest.
    Disadvantage is small clip size.

    Spas advantage is high damage per shot.
    Disadvantage is slow fire rate.

    Dual Desp advantage is tight spray for medium ranges.
    Disadvantage is low total ammo.

    Winchester and Winchester Scope advantages are accuracy and clip size.
    Disadvantage only shoots 1 pellet, making close range hit or miss. Winchester normal also reloads very slowly compared to the rest.
  • ZeromedZeromed Knight-Errant
    VATAV wrote: »
    I'm scared, what could take 3 posts of space?

    Dont worry, my hack works on the forums as well
  • vMiami wrote: »
    So does everyone agree that the devs butchered this weapon?

    i do. it was able to kill a buffalo from a 100 yards away...and now u cant kill a person from 10 yards away... -.-
  • ZeromedZeromed Knight-Errant
    Reserver for further use
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