PING - It means nothing!
Ok clearly ping means something, it's sort of a measurement of lag, but I have noticed something serious.
I play a lot of MM/HM. Mainly because every other mode contains it least one hacker but contrary to popular belief lagers aren't the problem.
Isn't it really annoying when you're five or ten feet away from a mutant and he hits you? Or you're standing on a ledge he jumps up and gets you when he shouldn't have? It clearly ruins the game mode and is very frustrating when it happens. I used to believe that it was the players fault because he was lagging. But I forgot a very important rule- don't hate the player hate the game.
Now I have seen people 50-60 ping hit me, while I was far away, and even I would hit people when they are far away (my ping is usually 60 ish) so I have realized that it is not the players, or lag, but the game's poor hit detection.
The suggestion = Fix this modes poor hit detection.
I play a lot of MM/HM. Mainly because every other mode contains it least one hacker but contrary to popular belief lagers aren't the problem.
Isn't it really annoying when you're five or ten feet away from a mutant and he hits you? Or you're standing on a ledge he jumps up and gets you when he shouldn't have? It clearly ruins the game mode and is very frustrating when it happens. I used to believe that it was the players fault because he was lagging. But I forgot a very important rule- don't hate the player hate the game.
Now I have seen people 50-60 ping hit me, while I was far away, and even I would hit people when they are far away (my ping is usually 60 ish) so I have realized that it is not the players, or lag, but the game's poor hit detection.
The suggestion = Fix this modes poor hit detection.
Comments
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The worst it happen to me was when i fired 7 deagle bullets to someone in the back and when someone else killed him and round was over i saw none of the shots registered lol no wonder the guy just kept runing.I had 200 ping and still today i wonder how in the world 7 bullets going at someone just running straight didnt register.
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It's not only ping, there's clearly something else involved. I played against a guy who had a ping below <100 and he was not taking damage and I was seeing him weird. I've seen 200 pingers who register well, I've seen 400 pinger who didn't teleport at all.
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Ping does mean something
But not much
It's PING DIFFERENCE that counts
2 players playing both with 200 ping will be like they both have 0 ping
We need to eliminate the differences
Not stupid ping caps
And also this game's reg is awful
It needs to be fixed too -
RawrJafrikan wrote: »Solution = PING CAP!
Reality = Devs wont do it!
Who said that?Hypernamer2 wrote: »Ping does mean something
But not much
It's PING DIFFERENCE that counts
2 players playing both with 200 ping will be like they both have 0 ping
We need to eliminate the differences
Not stupid ping caps
And also this game's reg is awful
It needs to be fixed too
Didnt the last patch help to increase reg? -
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yea... it's worse for me, i am 57 very stable ping ,since i play cf, n my pin never changes like some others do when new patch came..
now those high pinggers shot reg on me instantly, but my shots r nothing to them sometimes, i am saying sometimes, n when that happens, i am very sure, it's bad due to the stupid reg system here it is.
i can see the opponent players blood spreeding out, n the body shaking, but they killed me instantly sometimes, n it shows i didn't do any dmg to the high pingers..
also sometimes i though they were 1 shooting,so i go watch the replay, it was not.. -
The issue here is not the ping, or the lag, but the lag compensation.
Anyone who has played CS/CSS would understand the idea of lag compensation as measured by cl_lc and cl_lw.
Basically lag compensation is where the server takes each players latency (ping) and calculates for differences.
Player 1: has 200 ping.
Player 2: has 40 ping.
Player 1 fires a standard 30 round clip towards player 2.
It takes 200 ms for the server to receive the packets that say player 1 is firing at player 2 whereas it takes the server 40 ms to receive the packets that indicate that player 2 has moved away from that location.
Lag compensation will take the fact that it recognizes player 1 having fired at player 2 and registering the bullets anyway which leads to "interp".
The thing with this game is from what I can tell is it doesn't have lag compensation. I was playing with around 200 ping at one point, and it was interesting because all of my shots registered, IF, they didn't fire back. Once again, it took 200 ms for my shots to reach the server, 40 ms for theirs, if they fired within the 160 ms difference their shots would register first meaning I would be the one to die. -
dude pings means nothing if the ping is not over 200... lagg actually contains the fps and the ping if 1 of them sux
Lie.
After shooting lagger I can say if a guy has more or less than 100 ping, my guesses are usually accurate within 1 mistake on 10 attempts. It usually takes 1 more bullet to take down lagger (I run with AK47) and 100% sure headshots are usually missed, the head was not in the place I was firing to.
To OP- the lag issue is not that important for me in HM/MM, it's just fun mode that provides insane amount of GP, no matter if you have negative or top kdr. It's also mostly about luck when mutation starts, when you get decent position, away from mutatns you are fine, but game can always pick player that is standing right behind you. Lag issue is way more annoying in S&D matches, when being alive or not can change a lot- saddly hackers are being kicked really rarely (especially in late hours), laggers are almost never kicked unless they really suck (1 kill :15 deaths for instance), but the kick reason is irrelevant to lag case. I wish to have ping cap, it would make me really happy :P -
haha I can tell u something.Don't hit player from behind when u have 200+ ping.U will not get any damage.Really.The worst it happen to me was when i fired 7 deagle bullets to someone in the back and when someone else killed him and round was over i saw none of the shots registered lol no wonder the guy just kept runing.I had 200 ping and still today i wonder how in the world 7 bullets going at someone just running straight didnt register. -
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aMoistmuffin wrote: »The issue here is not the ping, or the lag, but the lag compensation.
Anyone who has played CS/CSS would understand the idea of lag compensation as measured by cl_lc and cl_lw.
Basically lag compensation is where the server takes each players latency (ping) and calculates for differences.
Player 1: has 200 ping.
Player 2: has 40 ping.
Player 1 fires a standard 30 round clip towards player 2.
It takes 200 ms for the server to receive the packets that say player 1 is firing at player 2 whereas it takes the server 40 ms to receive the packets that indicate that player 2 has moved away from that location.
Lag compensation will take the fact that it recognizes player 1 having fired at player 2 and registering the bullets anyway which leads to "interp".
The thing with this game is from what I can tell is it doesn't have lag compensation. I was playing with around 200 ping at one point, and it was interesting because all of my shots registered, IF, they didn't fire back. Once again, it took 200 ms for my shots to reach the server, 40 ms for theirs, if they fired within the 160 ms difference their shots would register first meaning I would be the one to die.
Yay, finally a post written by someone who appears to have a brain!
I haven't studied CF's netcode in detail, but I can tell you that something is obviously wrong when cheaters can edit the weapon damage values on their client and get one hit kills. This might lead you to believe that the damage is all clientside and the client just tells the server "I did X damage to player Y", but remember that when you shoot someone who has an extremely high ping, it'll take a little while for the shots to register. I'm guessing it's a combination of both, but who knows...
Furthermore, CF's player position update rate is extremely low (3 or 4 updates/sec) which means loads of interp has to be applied and that the movement you see isn't very accurate, and also has lots of delay behind it. This is why watching a replay of yourself playing is nothing like watching it in real-time -- the movement in the replay feels "sloppy" in comparison.
What I do like about CF's netcode is that bullets hit where you see them hit. If you shoot a gun at a wall and look at the spread pattern of the impacts from another player's viewpoint, it's exactly the same. I'm not quite sure how CF does this. It's possible that the client is actually telling the server each bullet impact location, but this would mean a ridiculous number of packets/sec are being sent out (imagine 16 people firing M12ses at once...). One other way I could think of doing this is to use a PRNG with a shared seed. Then the client would only have to notify the server of when it begins and ends firing. Again, I haven't looked at CF's netcode in detail, so I really don't know for sure how it's being done.
But to the OP - ping does indeed mean a lot. What's wrong is that people blame in-game anomalies on high pings when they could be caused by zillions of other factors... but that's besides the point. A player can have a legitimately high ping (let's say 300) but actually have a decent quality connection with minimal packet loss. Play vs someone like this in a sniper map and I'm sure you'll see the dumb stuff that happens, like being "shot through walls". So no, the "hit detection" isn't the problem. CF's hit detection honestly doesn't seem that horrible. What you're experiencing in MM matches is just an artifact of ping (even with low pings, it adds up...) and a very low update rate, which basically forces the interp to have huge delays.
Hmm... I wrote a bit more than I thought I was going to.
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To the above.
I only APPEAR to have a brain, the problem I have come across, is bullet registry when using assault files, or other fully-automatic weapons, and I think it is again because of the update rate as you said, 30 bullets being fired is a lot to send when the update rate is, if you are correct, 4-5 packets. What one of the mods and I were just discussing in xfire, was having CF use dedicated servers, it would require an entire overhaul of the system, but the cost and mechanics of the game would create massive improvements. Not only for the players but for the parent company.
This would remove the server hosting costs, and also remove any real need for an anticheat, as the administrators of the server would be able to ban people themselves, it also means servers in different countries would be less of an issue as CF could use a pre-existing server host. -
aMoistmuffin wrote: »To the above.
I only APPEAR to have a brain, the problem I have come across, is bullet registry when using assault files, or other fully-automatic weapons, and I think it is again because of the update rate as you said, 30 bullets being fired is a lot to send when the update rate is, if you are correct, 4-5 packets. What one of the mods and I were just discussing in xfire, was having CF use dedicated servers, it would require an entire overhaul of the system, but the cost and mechanics of the game would create massive improvements. Not only for the players but for the parent company.
This would remove the server hosting costs, and also remove any real need for an anticheat, as the administrators of the server would be able to ban people themselves, it also means servers in different countries would be less of an issue as CF could use a pre-existing server host.
Interestingly enough, I don't seem to have a problem with the reg personally. I can sit on top of a box in Egypt with a QBZ and click people's heads for the whole match, and almost everything hits just like it should. The only time the reg really bugs me is if I'm trying to headshot people with an M700 - my aim might be dead on but the damage just isn't dealt.
Player-run dedicated servers would be neat, but remember that CF is a tightly-integrated game - it is designed around the server/channel/room concept. Letting people host dedis would open loads of new attack vectors, and we all know CF has enough cheats already :P.
Regardless, it is a good idea and I'd be quite interested to see if any studio will make a game in which people can host dedis, but with the game still adhering to "MMOFPS" principles. -
Interestingly enough, I don't seem to have a problem with the reg personally. I can sit on top of a box in Egypt with a QBZ and click people's heads for the whole match, and almost everything hits just like it should. The only time the reg really bugs me is if I'm trying to headshot people with an M700 - my aim might be dead on but the damage just isn't dealt.
Player-run dedicated servers would be neat, but remember that CF is a tightly-integrated game - it is designed around the server/channel/room concept. Letting people host dedis would open loads of new attack vectors, and we all know CF has enough cheats already :P.
Regardless, it is a good idea and I'd be quite interested to see if any studio will make a game in which people can host dedis, but with the game still adhering to "MMOFPS" principles.
Well, a simple way to do it, would be player hosted private channels, a clan can buy a dedicated server, and the server is added to the existing "hive network" of other servers, meaning G4/Z8 would still have a MMOFPS rank system, and the servers would be privately owned. -
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