More Philosophy time!
Comments
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Aimoperative wrote: »So then Truth is not reality? Then true or false, if jump off a building, will i fall because of gravity?
The truth in your eyes and the people who saw it is that you fell off the building(nobody knew why), the reality is that you fell because of gravity. -
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Aimoperative wrote: »But plainly, the truth is that gravity makes things fall down to earth.
Thats the truth in your eyes, and the reality still is that gravity makes things fall.
If I say to myself things fall because of other reasons, it becomes my vision of the truth even if the reality is different. -
The truth in my eyes (gravity makes things fall) is constant with the reality that gravity does make things fall.Thats the truth in your eyes, and the reality still is that gravity makes things fall.
If I say to myself things fall because of other reasons, it becomes my vision of the truth even if the reality is different.
The point is that gravity is responsible for me actually falling (the motion of falling) anyone could say that some one pushed me and was responsible for MAKING me fall, but gravity pulled me down to the earth.
Truth does not change, because what is true is based off reality. Reality is truth, my worldview of truth may change, but THE TRUTH never changes.
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This topic is stupid. There is no provable truth as we cannot prove anything beyond our own self. That's pretty much it.
We can prove other things beyond our self, if we couldn't, there would be no such thing as reality. For example, something as simple as If I slapped you in the face right now. Although you might say that the pain would be of the mind, it is not. The thought of the pain in which we define it is, but not the pain itself. The pain exists. The thought of the pain exists. Therefore, it exists, because we have defined it as so. Therefore pain is provable, the same way that we are. -
Aimoperative wrote: »You're supposed to try to think...or make an attempt, otherwise you're being a very bad sport.
I did. You cannot come to any other conclusion that what I did. PROVE that anything other than your own conciousness exists, go ahead and try. -
Aimoperative wrote: »The truth in my eyes (gravity makes things fall) is constant with the reality that gravity does make things fall.
The point is that gravity is responsible for me actually falling (the motion of falling) anyone could say that some one pushed me and was responsible for MAKING me fall, but gravity pulled me down to the earth.
Truth does not change, because what is true is based off reality. Reality is truth, my worldview of truth may change, but THE TRUTH never changes.
Your basing this all on yourself. I'm saying that my truth can be different yours. The truth of one subject is changed in the eyes of different people, reality cannot be changed. We all view that the sky is blue. What if we all viewed that the sky is purple, and everyone in the world said it was purple, then our truth would be the sky is purple. The reality still is the sky is blue even if the truth of billions says its not. (This discussion of truth vs Reality is very Aryn Rand'ish btw.) -
We can prove other things beyond our self, if we couldn't, there would be no such thing as reality. For example, something as simple as If I slapped you in the face right now. Although you might say that the pain would be of the mind, it is not. The thought of the pain in which we define it is, but not the pain itself. The pain exists. The thought of the pain exists. Therefore, it exists, because we have defined it as so. Therefore pain is provable, the same way that we are.
You can't prove the pain exists.
I hate to refrence sci-fi movies, but have you seen "The Matrix"?
Just because your nerves pick up information, and then send them to your brain does not mean it is real. Reality is not based on perception. Truth IS based on reality. Your argument that reality and truth are not the same thing is completely ridiculous.
If I believe there is a floating hippo above my head, that does not make it fact. Fact is reality is truth. You cannot prove, WITH fact, that anything exists besides your own conciousness. Therefore, the only reality that is provable is your own conciousness. Therefore, the only TRUTH that is provable IS YOUR OWN CONCIOUSNESS.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/truth
Truth is not opinion based, don't be stupid. -
Truth cannot be changed by the masses, if a president lied about changing the voting, and everybody agreed with him, that does not change the fact that he cheated (reality and the truth that he cheated)Your basing this all on yourself. I'm saying that my truth can be different yours. The truth of one subject is changed in the eyes of different people, reality cannot be changed. We all view that the sky is blue. What if we all viewed that the sky is purple, and everyone in the world said it was purple, then our truth would be the sky is purple. The reality still is the sky is blue even if the truth of billions says its not. (This discussion of truth vs Reality is very Aryn Rand'ish btw.) -
You can't prove the pain exists.
I hate to refrence sci-fi movies, but have you seen "The Matrix"?
Just because your nerves pick up information, and then send them to your brain does not mean it is real. Reality is not based on perception. Truth IS based on reality. Your argument that reality and truth are not the same thing is completely ridiculous.
If I believe there is a floating hippo above my head, that does not make it fact. Fact is reality is truth. You cannot prove, WITH fact, that anything exists besides your own conciousness. Therefore, the only reality that is provable is your own conciousness. Therefore, the only TRUTH that is provable IS YOUR OWN CONCIOUSNESS.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/truth
Truth is not opinion based, don't be stupid.
Truth is a very connotative word, and getting a denotative dictionary definition is pointless. The Truth is that subjects and words can be connotative meaning that people can give it different definitions. If my theory of reality and truth being separate is true, truth could never be based on reality. Fact is reality, but reality is not truth. Reality can be perceived differently but there still is only one absolute reality, there is no such thing as an alternate universe or reality. Truth is completely different though, truth can be perceived through different views. Truth is never fact, if I say something of my or someones Else's truth to be different from the actual reality. Reality is simply real, and is absolute. -
if truth is provable through our own consciousness, then does that not make truth opinion based? as we base our opinions off what we feel and experience (consciousness).You can't prove the pain exists.
I hate to refrence sci-fi movies, but have you seen "The Matrix"?
Just because your nerves pick up information, and then send them to your brain does not mean it is real. Reality is not based on perception. Truth IS based on reality. Your argument that reality and truth are not the same thing is completely ridiculous.
If I believe there is a floating hippo above my head, that does not make it fact. Fact is reality is truth. You cannot prove, WITH fact, that anything exists besides your own conciousness. Therefore, the only reality that is provable is your own conciousness. Therefore, the only TRUTH that is provable IS YOUR OWN CONCIOUSNESS.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/truth
Truth is not opinion based, don't be stupid. -
Aimoperative wrote: »Truth cannot be changed by the masses, if a president lied about changing the voting, and everybody agreed with him, that does not change the fact that he cheated (reality and the truth that he cheated)
The fact is that he cheated, that is the reality. The truth in the eyes of the people is that he didn't.This sentence is ******ed. Just wanted to point it out.
Obviously meant to say "Then yours" -
which came first, the word truth, or the word reality. (just throwing that out there for some reason...)Truth is a very connotative word, and getting a denotative dictionary definition is pointless. The Truth is that subjects and words can be connotative meaning that people can give it different definitions. If my theory of reality and truth being separate is true, truth could never be based on reality. Fact is reality, but reality is not truth. Reality can be perceived differently but there still is only one absolute reality, there is no such thing as an alternate universe or reality. Truth is completely different though, truth can be perceived through different views. Truth is never fact, if I say something of my or someones Else's truth to be different from the actual reality. Reality is simply real, and is absolute.
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Truth is a very connotative word, and getting a denotative dictionary definition is pointless. The Truth is that subjects and words can be connotative meaning that people can give it different definitions. If my theory of reality and truth being separate is true, truth could never be based on reality. Fact is reality, but reality is not truth. Reality can be perceived differently but there still is only one absolute reality, there is no such thing as an alternate universe or reality. Truth is completely different though, truth can be perceived through different views. Truth is never fact, if I say something of my or someones Else's truth to be different from the actual reality. Reality is simply real, and is absolute.
Are you ******ed? Truth is defined ONE WAY. ONE. That ONE is fact. By your logic I could start a discussion about guns and that start talking about monkeys, saying that I define the word gun as the animal monkey. Just because you believe something does not make it true, you are an idiot if you actually believe that. Believing something that is false does not make it true, it makes you delusional.
Then again, I just saw your sig. You actually had me going there, good job. No more responses to your troll posts anymore though =\ -
Aimoperative wrote: »if truth is provable through our own consciousness, then does that not make truth opinion based? as we base our opinions off what we feel and experience (consciousness).
No. You're an idiot. Truth is fact, you're a ****ing moron if you believe differently. -
Are you ******ed? Truth is defined ONE WAY. ONE. That ONE is fact. By your I could start a discussion about guns and that start talking about monkeys, saying that I define the word gun as the animal monkey. Just because you believe something does not make it true, you are an idiot if you actually believe that. Believing something that is false does not make it true, it makes you delusional.
Then again, I just saw your sig. You actually had me going there, good job. No more responses to your troll posts anymore though =\
Who says truth is defined only one way? You. Truth is based off the human conscious and mind and what they perceive of it. If you think differently then someone else, that does not make them delusional. From what we debated, we haven't found a definite definition of truth, thus if you happen to be wrong, doesn't that make you delusional? -
Who says truth is defined only one way? You. Truth is based off the human conscious and mind and what they perceive of it. If you think differently then someone else, that does not make them delusional. From what we debated, we haven't found a definite definition of truth, thus if you happen to be wrong, doesn't that make you delusional?
Nope. I am right, Why am I right? Because we are communicating in the english language. There is no "alternate" or "street" version of the word truth. Find me ONE ENGLISH dictionary that defines truth as opinion.
Until we are communicating in some language that defines the word truth as "what you delude yourself into believing" it will be impossible for you to successfully argue me. Until that time, good day. -
You will notice that only recently has the term "truth" become reduced to being relative.The fact is that he cheated, that is the reality. The truth in the eyes of the people is that he didn't.
example: drug addict believes that drugs are curing his cancer, but the reality is that the drugs he takes are weakening him and thus killing him.
Drug addict believes his own version of truth. But if you look back years ago and present the same situation, they won't use the word reality, but the word truth. The truth was the drug addict was killing himself.
You will also notice that when you make truth relative, you allow yourself to compromise on pretty much everything. Read The Lottery by Shirly Jackson, the towns people believed that killing a person via a yearly ritual was not wrong (their worldview on truth), the fact that killing unreasonably IS wrong, it is True that killing somebody unreasonably is wrong. -
Aimoperative wrote: »You will notice that only recently has the term "truth" become reduced to being relative.
example: drug addict believes that drugs are curing his cancer, but the reality is that the drugs he takes are weakening him and thus killing him.
Drug addict believes his own version of truth. But if you look back years ago and present the same situation, they won't use the word reality, but the word truth. The truth was the drug addict was killing himself.
You will also notice that when you make truth relative, you allow yourself to compromise on pretty much everything. Read The Lottery by Shirly Jackson, the towns people believed that killing a person via a yearly ritual was not wrong (their worldview on truth), the fact that killing unreasonably IS wrong, it is True that killing somebody unreasonably is wrong.
You can't prove that killing soemone is wrong. Atleast, not without applying situational factors.
Regardless, just because they have their own delusion does not make it real. Therefore it is not the truth.
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