philosophy time!
Comments
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Creation has nothing to do with this. And my point IS that we don't understand everything. That's the entire basis for my argument.
So in our limited knowledge, how can we argue about things we are limited in our knowledge about?
We cannot. We can try to assauge our limited understanding with victories against each other!
But the song remains the same.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4FvKM29TqU -
Creation has nothing to do with this. And my point IS that we don't understand everything. That's the entire basis for my argument.We don't understand everything, that's true. However, we do understand "Everything".
The concepts "Everything", "All", "Infinity", and "Almighty" are all the same. We understand them, for we damn well invented them. They are all limiters to describe something limitless.
Everything + 1 = Everything
All + 1 = All
Infinity + 1 = Infinity
Almighty + 1 = Almighty
Get the picture now?
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We don't understand everything, that's true. However, we do understand "Everything".
The concepts "Everything", "All", "Infinity", and "Almighty" are all the same. We understand them, for we damn well invented them. They are all limiters to describe something limitless.
Everything + 1 = Everything
All + 1 = All
Infinity + 1 = Infinity
Almighty + 1 = Almighty
Get the picture now?
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We can understand it in theory, but try to imagine eternity, it's impossible, your mind can't grasp it as a whole, you can put it in numbers, but to think about it is incomprehensible. -
ok here is the deal.
there is a entity that is almighty, would this entity be able to spawn a boulder that it cant split?
discuss this stuff, i'd like to see what you guys come up with
...
Since a picture is worth a thousand words.
In words it would look like that to me...:
It is hard to explain since it would be beyond time...
I mean, if that entity can create from nothing it would probably be able to shape time the same way...
seeing it that way I can only come to one conclusion:
everything created was shaped the same way "time" is....
since you cant live the same thing twice at the same moment, u cant split the boulder cause it would alter the fabric of time
(u cant split time you can only measure it.)....
Not sure but the only solution to me, if you want the same boulder but twice... The deal would be to make a reflection of it..... a thing the human can accomplish. u can create a reflection, yet you can't destroy it since it is only a reflection, therefore not matter. -
aMoistmuffin wrote: »We can understand it in theory, but try to imagine eternity, it's impossible, your mind can't grasp it as a whole, you can put it in numbers, but to think about it is incomprehensible.Your mind can't grasp it as a whole, because it isn't a whole.
Its like tomorrow. Always a day away. For every number you can think of, there is always one greater. Because our thinking is limited, we think within those limits. But we are aware that there are things beyond our limits. And to acknowledge those things into our reality, we invented concepts like "Everything" and "Almighty". However, these concepts are contradictory, for they are limiters on something limitless.
So every entity must have a limit in order to create something beyond its limit. And if an entity is limitless, it can't create something beyond a limit it doesn't have. And this is where this theory contradicts itself, for it suggests that an entity with limitless power can't do something, and is therefore limited in its power.
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Your mind can't grasp it as a whole, because it isn't a whole.
Its like tomorrow. Always a day away. For every number you can think of, there is always one greater. Because our thinking is limited, we think within those limits. But we are aware that there are things beyond our limits. And to acknowledge those things into our reality, we invented concepts like "Everything" and "Almighty". However, these concepts are contradictory, for they are limiters on something limitless.
So every entity must have a limit in order to create something beyond its limit. And if an entity is limitless, it can't create something beyond a limit it doesn't have. And this is where this theory contradicts itself, for it suggests that an entity with limitless power can't do something, and is therefore limited in its power.
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So you are saying that since the entity is limitless, it would not be able to create something that has a limit... ( what kind of limit im talking about you say? idk... ex: size, shape, fabric color... etc.)..... meaning he cant create something without it being limitless... SO... he could create the boulder and not being able to destroy it because then the boulder would be limitless.... idk if you get my point.... the only other possibility i can figure out would be since the entity is almighty it couldn't create because it would already be everything it could be... but you already said that. hehe -
We don't understand everything, that's true. However, we do understand "Everything".
The concepts "Everything", "All", "Infinity", and "Almighty" are all the same. We understand them, for we damn well invented them. They are all limiters to describe something limitless.
Everything + 1 = Everything
All + 1 = All
Infinity + 1 = Infinity
Almighty + 1 = Almighty
Get the picture now?
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Its like tomorrow. Always a day away. For every number you can think of, there is always one greater. Because our thinking is limited, we think within those limits. But we are aware that there are things beyond our limits. And to acknowledge those things into our reality, we invented concepts like "Everything" and "Almighty". However, these concepts are contradictory, for they are limiters on something limitless.
So every entity must have a limit in order to create something beyond its limit. And if an entity is limitless, it can't create something beyond a limit it doesn't have. And this is where this theory contradicts itself, for it suggests that an entity with limitless power can't do something, and is therefore limited in its power.
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Both irrelvant to what I am saying. My argument is that there is a hypothetical reality in which that can be twisted to a point that "everything" can still be "everything" and yet stil have definable lmits, through some sort of weird ass logic/workings that only make sense if you reside in said reality.
As I said before, I can't prove it. But considering this is a topic about hypotheticals and impossibilities, it is a valid suggestion, no?
P.S. Something funny to consider. Take a 3 dimensional sphere. Then fill it with 2 dimensional circles. How many can you fit inside?
That's infinity with limits. Those limits are just on a different dimension than the infinity. -
So you are saying that since the entity is limitless, it would not be able to create something that has a limit... ( what kind of limit im talking about you say? idk... ex: size, shape, fabric color... etc.)..... meaning he cant create something without it being limitless... SO... he could create the boulder and not being able to destroy it because then the boulder would be limitless.... idk if you get my point.... the only other possibility i can figure out would be since the entity is almighty it couldn't create because it would already be everything it could be... but you already said that. hehe
You need to brush up on your reading skills, for that is the exact opposite of what I said.
I said that since the entity is limitless, it can't create something that is beyond its limit, for it has no limit to create something beyond.
So if this entity can create and destroy everything, this entity can NOT create something it can NOT destroy.Both irrelvant to what I am saying. My argument is that there is a hypothetical reality in which that can be twisted to a point that "everything" can still be "everything" and yet stil have definable lmits, through some sort of weird ass logic/workings that only make sense if you reside in said reality.
(See your own post about your 3rd dimensional sphere. You are trying to fill a 4th dimensional concept with a 3rd dimensional reality. Meaning, that there is still 1 dimension that never gets filled.)
As I said before, I can't prove it. But considering this is a topic about hypotheticals and impossibilities, it is a valid suggestion, no?
(Indeed, no.)
P.S. Something funny to consider. Take a 3 dimensional sphere. Then fill it with 2 dimensional circles. How many can you fit inside?
(Infinite, for the 3rd detention never gets filled)
That's infinity with limits. Those limits are just on a different dimension than the infinity.
There.
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We don't understand everything, that's true. However, we do understand "Everything".
The concepts "Everything", "All", "Infinity", and "Almighty" are all the same. We understand them, for we damn well invented them. They are all limiters to describe something limitless.
Everything + 1 = Everything
All + 1 = All
Infinity + 1 = Infinity
Almighty + 1 = Almighty
Get the picture now?
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Lemme twist some of ur maths, u'll get what I meant when i said that, since i read just fine.
Everything + 1 BOULDER = Everything
All + 1 BOULDER = All
Infinity + 1 BOULDER = Infinity
Almighty + 1 BOULDER = Almighty
Therefore it can't create
Even if I'm wrong and it could create that boulder, what would happens if it tries to destroy it?
Everything - 1 BOULDER = Everything
All - 1 BOULDER = All
Infinity - 1 BOULDER = Infinity
Almighty - 1 BOULDER = Almighty
See a patern? it is just like nothing ever happen.... Almighty stays Almighty, boulder or not.... What's revelant here is this: It can only act one way and not the other... see what is happening when we simplify the equations.
Everything + Everything = 1 BOULDER
All + All = 1 BOULDER
Infinity + Infinity = 1 BOULDER
Almighty + Almighty = 1 BOULDER
If Almighty wants to destroy the boulder, it has to destroy his equivalent... meaning itself, Almighty........
" ..since the entity is limitless, it can't create something that is beyond its limit..."
Numbers, numbers, numbers....
0/1? 0...
0/999999~ = 0
So 0 is the perfect number to fit the word "limitless" since u can divide 0 by infinite numbers of numbers it is always gonna equal to 0..... Open ur calculator a try that 99999999999999999999/0.... ur gonna get something like "Impossible equation".... Now you have to notice that just like our buddy, the Limitless Almighty green power ranger Entity... can only act one way and not the other..... if it creates it cant destroy, if it destroy it stops existing
Something limitless can only create something with limitless proportions and beyond so it becomes indestructible since once created, it would have no limit.
By already being limitless, our entity can only create limits since its the only way to balance the equation....
"Nothing lost, Nothing created, Everything is transformation" -
(See your own post about your 3rd dimensional sphere. You are trying to fill a 4th dimensional concept with a 3rd dimensional reality. Meaning, that there is still 1 dimension that never gets filled.)
I fail to see what you're trying to say. Re-phrase please.
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No.
Lol, so what your saying is that while we're discussion impossibilities and hypothetical situations that gp beyond our realm of knowledge and understanding, that we can't present solutions that also go beyond our realm of knowledge and understanding? And not even to give an answer, just the possibility of a solution? That we should be limited to trying to answer questions that obviously can't be answered in our natural law IN our natural law?
xD -
(See your own post about your 3rd dimensional sphere. You are trying to fill a 4th dimensional concept with a 3rd dimensional reality. Meaning, that there is still 1 dimension that never gets filled.)
I fail to see what you're trying to say. Re-phrase please.
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No.
Lol, so what your saying is that while we're discussion impossibilities and hypothetical situations that gp beyond our realm of knowledge and understanding, that we can't present solutions that also go beyond our realm of knowledge and understanding? And not even to give an answer, just the possibility of a solution? That we should be limited to trying to answer questions that obviously can't be answered in our natural law IN our natural law?
xDLet me rephrase:
Limitless concepts, like time, infinity, eternity, are all considered 4 dimensional. Just like you can't fill a 3 dimensional glass with 2 dimensional water, you can't fill a 4 dimensional concept with a 3 dimensional reality.
An almighty entity is a contradiction by itself, for the idea suggests you give a 4 dimensional force (almighty) a 3 dimensional shape (entity).
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Let me rephrase:
Limitless concepts, like time, infinity, eternity, are all considered 4 dimensional. Just like you can't fill a 3 dimensional glass with 2 dimensional water, you can't fill a 4 dimensional concept with a 3 dimensional reality.
An almighty entity is a contradiction by itself, for the idea suggests you give a 4 dimensional force (almighty) a 3 dimensional shape (entity).
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The entity must be 3 dimensional? Or is that what defines "entity"?
I was referring to the possibility of OP's entity existing on a different dimension, but if "entity" is defined by 3 dimensions then I take back what I said. -
The entity must be 3 dimensional? Or is that what defines "entity"?
I was referring to the possibility of OP's entity existing on a different dimension, but if "entity" is defined by 3 dimensions then I take back what I said.I don't know for a full 100% about the entity, but the boulder sure exists in the 3rd dimension. So the boulder falls under our 3 dimensional laws of physics.
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Let me rephrase:
Limitless concepts, like time, infinity, eternity, are all considered 4 dimensional. Just like you can't fill a 3 dimensional glass with 2 dimensional water, you can't fill a 4 dimensional concept with a 3 dimensional reality.
An almighty entity is a contradiction by itself, for the idea suggests you give a 4 dimensional force (almighty) a 3 dimensional shape (entity).
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Hmmmmmmmm just saying but we are living in the 4th dimention....
1st is a dot, 2nd is a line, 3rd is depth 4th is time..... so we are in the 4th since we can move/communicate and make the use of time. :eek::eek::cool:;) -
Hmmmmmmmm just saying but we are living in the 4th dimention....
1st is a dot, 2nd is a line, 3rd is depth 4th is time..... so we are in the 4th since we can move/communicate and make the use of time. :eek::eek::cool:;)Its a little more complicated than that, but no, we exist in the 3th dimension. If we existed in the 4th dimension, we would exist out/along side of time, rather than in it.
Also, we don't use time, time uses us. Or rather we can't affect time, time affects us.
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Its a little more complicated than that, but no, we exist in the 3th dimension. If we existed in the 4th dimension, we would exist out/along side of time, rather than in it.
Also, we don't use time, time uses us. Or rather we can't affect time, time affects us.
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Not sure if I should agree or not with that, I mean sure it makes sense... but why is it this way? can you prove it? -
Not sure if I should agree or not with that, I mean sure it makes sense... but why is it this way? can you prove it?That would require me getting into scientific matter that would make even my head spin. I'm just a grade-school teacher, not a mathematicians.
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I don't know for a full 100% about the entity, but the boulder sure exists in the 3rd dimension. So the boulder falls under our 3 dimensional laws of physics.
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Oh ya, no question about the boulder. But as you said in a later post, although we exist in the 3rd dimention, the 4th still affects us. So would a higher dimensional entity not be able to affect a 3 dimensional boulder? -
Hmmmmmmmm just saying but we are living in the 4th dimention....
1st is a dot, 2nd is a line, 3rd is depth 4th is time..... so we are in the 4th since we can move/communicate and make the use of time. :eek::eek::cool:;)
1st is not a dot, 1st is data, information. 2cm as a unit is 1 dimensional thing. You can still have a 1 dimensional line, it's just impossible to visualize.
2nd is better represented by a square.Not sure if I should agree or not with that, I mean sure it makes sense... but why is it this way? can you prove it?
Yep, it's simple to prove.
Can we control time? Do we exist in a reality that allows us to travel through/control time at will? We do not. We DO live in a reality that allows us to travel the 3rd dimension at will however. Therefore we are 3rd dimensional beings.
It's like what I said about the sphere before. A 2d plane of existence can still have a 3 dimensional location, it's just that the things inside the 2 dimensional plane cannot willingly traverse the 3rd dimension. (Or allwo their reality to traverse it either.) -
Oh ya, no question about the boulder. But as you said in a later post, although we exist in the 3rd dimention, the 4th still affects us. So would a higher dimensional entity not be able to affect a 3 dimensional boulder?Affect it. yes. Make it so that can no longer be destroyed by it, no. Anything it can create, it should also be able to destroy.
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Affect it. yes. Make it so that can no longer be destroyed by it, no. Anything it can create, it should also be able to destroy.
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But you're applying 3rd dimensional logic onto the being, are you not? Which isn't relevant because it doesn't exist in our reality, and therefore could very well have completely different "logic" wherever it resides. -
But you're applying 3rd dimensional logic onto the being, are you not? Which isn't relevant because it doesn't exist in our reality, and therefore could very well have completely different "logic" wherever it resides.No, I'm applying 3rd dimensional logic to the 3rd dimensional boulder.
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No, I'm applying 3rd dimensional logic to the 3rd dimensional boulder.
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And I'm saying, isn't it possible that the higher entitiy could apply higher logic to itself in order to "destroy" the boulder? -
And I'm saying, isn't it possible that the higher entitiy could apply higher logic to itself in order to "destroy" the boulder?We weren't talking about destroying the boulder. We were talking about an almighty entity creating a boulder it couldn't destroy. And this is impossible, because 3rd dimensional laws of physics apply to that boulder. Even an entity residing on in the 4th dimension can not change that. And 3rd dimensional laws of physics state that all objects can be broken down to its 3 basic elements; neutrons, protons, and electrons.
Also, the 4th dimension is not some mystical fairyland, where everything is possible with a bit of magic. The 4th dimension is part of our reality. What you are looking for is a different reality, not a different dimension.
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And 3rd dimensional laws of physics state that all objects can be broken down to its 3 basic elements; neutrons, protons, and electrons.
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Well, let's just stick with molecules, cuz of stability problems, protons, neutrons and electrons would come back together
OT : the question is a paradox, and a supposed "almighty being" can destroy an indestructible boulder, as it can do the impossible. -
We weren't talking about destroying the boulder. We were talking about an almighty entity creating a boulder it couldn't destroy. And this is impossible, because 3rd dimensional laws of physics apply to that boulder. Even an entity residing on in the 4th dimension can not change that. And 3rd dimensional laws of physics state that all objects can be broken down to its 3 basic elements; neutrons, protons, and electrons.
Also, the 4th dimension is not some mystical fairyland, where everything is possible with a bit of magic. The 4th dimension is part of our reality. What you are looking for is a different reality, not a different dimension.
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And reading my previous posts I believe that was my original point, I just got side-tracked with all this dimention stuff.
Unless you consider a seperate reality being to be "cheating" in the case of this question.
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