Ping revisited
this:
http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=134710
led me to start this thread, although the goal of this thread is slightly different, with a slightly different topic and a bit more constructed so i decided to split it instead of posting in hes thread.
a common idea of how ping work is that: a higher ping power your reg rate.
there is a flaw to this.
facts:
-ping is the time it takes for a packet to reach the z8 server.
- you can die from behind a wall, the higher pinged the opponent, the more likely it will happen. this mean that the server chose what get hit by the person shooting and not the person getting shot, you can also see that in replays. this mean that no mather what, in theory peoples have a 100% reg rate as long as the packet reach.
- the more peoples in the server/room. the lower the reg rate, that is due to the fact that the z8's server get lagged and increase the chance of packet lose, this affect evre1 equally no mater the ping.
now, why is the reg rate so horrible? and why do peoples who's ping suddenly increase get a lower reg rate? simple, its a spike.
as i said earlier, as long as the packet reach, there is many things that can make the packet not reach. such as having a bad internet. if your ping suddenly double/triple for a second, that mean you spiked, aka, your internet suddenly had no connection for a little moment. the fact it shows a higher ping is simply caused due to the way ping is calculated.
now, obviously, the bigger the distance, the higher the chances are that the packet get lost. but som1 living in china with a good internet will have a better reg rate then som1 who live next to the server with dial up. even though the person next to the server will have a better ping.
how can we see this ingame?
- i see videos of peoples of 200+ pings having a far better reg rate then me. i have 35 ping.
-most pub stars that lag are usually peoples with bad internet( like i do sadly.) but put a player with a high ping but a good internet and he will top frag any pub without problem while having a Canadian like reg rate.
- 90% of peoples who qq about the low reg rate are not peoples with a high ping, but peoples with a lesser pc/internet connection.
http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=134710
led me to start this thread, although the goal of this thread is slightly different, with a slightly different topic and a bit more constructed so i decided to split it instead of posting in hes thread.
a common idea of how ping work is that: a higher ping power your reg rate.
there is a flaw to this.
facts:
-ping is the time it takes for a packet to reach the z8 server.
- you can die from behind a wall, the higher pinged the opponent, the more likely it will happen. this mean that the server chose what get hit by the person shooting and not the person getting shot, you can also see that in replays. this mean that no mather what, in theory peoples have a 100% reg rate as long as the packet reach.
- the more peoples in the server/room. the lower the reg rate, that is due to the fact that the z8's server get lagged and increase the chance of packet lose, this affect evre1 equally no mater the ping.
now, why is the reg rate so horrible? and why do peoples who's ping suddenly increase get a lower reg rate? simple, its a spike.
as i said earlier, as long as the packet reach, there is many things that can make the packet not reach. such as having a bad internet. if your ping suddenly double/triple for a second, that mean you spiked, aka, your internet suddenly had no connection for a little moment. the fact it shows a higher ping is simply caused due to the way ping is calculated.
now, obviously, the bigger the distance, the higher the chances are that the packet get lost. but som1 living in china with a good internet will have a better reg rate then som1 who live next to the server with dial up. even though the person next to the server will have a better ping.
how can we see this ingame?
- i see videos of peoples of 200+ pings having a far better reg rate then me. i have 35 ping.
-most pub stars that lag are usually peoples with bad internet( like i do sadly.) but put a player with a high ping but a good internet and he will top frag any pub without problem while having a Canadian like reg rate.
- 90% of peoples who qq about the low reg rate are not peoples with a high ping, but peoples with a lesser pc/internet connection.
Comments
-
you cant tell the 90% of people if u think its true i wold like to see the numbers.. and i dont think that its not only ppl with a lesser pc/internet connection sometimes the ppl uses the ping to say that your skill is your ping when sometimes you have like 100 of ping or 120 and about ur 35 ping i need to say that when i play with ppl like with 20 ping i feel that they have more damage cuz when they killme just shooting at my body they make it just too fast, im not crying about it indeed i love it cuz it makes the fight more harder
and i like that n.n and yeah sometimes the ping when its too low it can help a bit but seriously the skill owns the ping.. -
not in term of bandwidth but in term of pure qualityMmm, "good internet connection" in terms of bandwidth? Won't make much of a difference, as the data transferred between the game and the servers is very limited in size.
i get 35 ping, with a 20 mb/s download connection, my friend who got a beast internet get 25 while he live at walking distance of my house. so you would think there's a zone where a better internet just doesn't do anything but really, i am pretty sure bandwidth isn't the only thing that can vary.
edit: to add
i dint test cf on hes pc myself, what i typed in the opening post is just speculations. -
I dont agree, i have 7mb/s connection yet my reg is horrible. FPS could have something to do with this.not in term of bandwidth but in term of pure quality
i get 35 ping, with a 20 mb/s download connection, my friend who got a beast internet get 25 while he live at walking distance of my house. so you would think there's a zone where a better internet just doesn't do anything but really, i am pretty sure bandwidth isn't the only thing that can vary.
edit: to add
i dint test cf on hes pc myself, what i typed in the opening post is just speculations.
He would have the exact same ping as you.
After so much the amount of Mb/s doesnt matter it then becomes a distance issue. -
I dont agree, i have 7mb/s connection yet my reg is horrible. FPS could have something to do with this.
He would have the exact same ping as you.
After so much the amount of Mb/s doesnt matter it then becomes a distance issue.
7 mb is pretty low. and my friend do have a lower ping then me.
i do agree fps might have to do with it, as i myself experience a better reg rate when my fps is higher, but theirs no reason why that would be. -
i have a 10mb internet, around 150 FPS and my REG is HORRIBLE!
I have a 20 mb connection sometimes my FPS will go close to 200 in a 5x5 and my reg is a joke. Reason? My ping.
Sorry darkname2 you wrote a lot, you had a couple of good ideas and all but your argument is terrible. Ping is the most important thing when considering Reg.
CF hit box is horrible, so we can't put it all in the ping but the higher your ping the higher the chances you'll not reg properly. -
Mmm, "good internet connection" in terms of bandwidth? Won't make much of a difference, as the data transferred between the game and the servers is very limited in size.
so very true.....
for example i went from 700kbs down stream to 6MEGAbits down stream and decrease my ping by 5 ms, and mainly only because my upstream went from 100kbs to 1.5mbs.....
let me make this clear and simple... THIS GAMES HIT CODE IS GARBAGE..... it used client side movement calcualtions instead of sinking the info up by having the server do it. therefor their not always where they look like they are... they do this because some one with over 100 ping on a server side game could barely move because they would be waiting for the server to let them.....
example..
i push forward on a client side game i move forward on my screen, the server gets the info and tells every one else i moved forward....
i move forward on a server side game, my comp tells the server, the server then tells my comp and every one elses ok move forward. If you have high ping in these games you run still all the time waiting to get the info back from the server that you infact moved...
NOW, that being said, the netcode is the way it is, (even tho you will be hard pressed to find another game made prior to 1999 that uses this) too allow a greater player base. which is fine and dandy... for them.. -
I have a 20 mb connection sometimes my FPS will go close to 200 in a 5x5 and my reg is a joke. Reason? My ping.
Sorry darkname2 you wrote a lot, you had a couple of good ideas and all but your argument is terrible. Ping is the most important thing when considering Reg.
CF hit box is horrible, so we can't put it all in the ping but the higher your ping the higher the chances you'll not reg properly.
played a few games in uk, i was playing horribly, being tired and having changed my mouse sensitivity yet again. the other team had 3 hackers ( 2 guy 1 shoting with a m700, the other being inside the wall.) the rest of the players where also better then those you normally find in alpha. only a single 1 of my shot didn't reg. my reg against peoples with that kind of ping is the exact same in alpha, if not worst. i have tested it multiple time and my reg in the uk server is the exact same.
yes in theory a higher ping lower your reg rate, since it increase the chances a packet get lost. but a good internet connection will counter that. -
7 mb is pretty low. and my friend do have a lower ping then me.
i do agree fps might have to do with it, as i myself experience a better reg rate when my fps is higher, but theirs no reason why that would be.
Actually if I were to get a 20 mb/s internet my ping wont go down. I have tested it.
Distance + internet speed = ping
That being said your internet speed doesnt affect your ping as much after a certain amount of bandwidth.
Check out my speeds at work....
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1194786970.png
Work for a telephone company
Just did another one o.O
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1194793854.png -
Actually if I were to get a 20 mb/s internet my ping wont go down. I have tested it.
Distance + internet speed = ping
That being said your internet speed doesnt affect your ping as much after a certain amount of bandwidth.
Check out my speeds at work....
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1194786970.png
it can go slightly lower. but anyway were going a bit off topic, the topic being that ping itself isn't the best way to say who got a better registry as ping doesn't calculate packet lose. -
it can go slightly lower. but anyway were going a bit off topic, the topic being that ping itself isn't the best way to say who got a better registry as ping doesn't calculate packet lose.
True but just having all the mb/s in the world isnt going to give you better reg either.
Having a constant internet connection is needed but my reg is still crap. -
True but just having all the mb/s in the world isnt going to give you better reg either.
Having a constant internet connection is needed but my reg is still crap.
most of the packet lost probably hapen at the z8's server tbh. or its posible that som1 is only considered dead IF the person receive the packet saying hes dead ( thus making the: low pinger reg quicker argument invalid) and that would mean som1 with a bad internet connection when getting shot would be where the packet lost is. but seriously, the download rate is always way higher then the upload so there's no way peoples have such a bad internet. -
not in term of bandwidth but in term of pure quality
i get 35 ping, with a 20 mb/s download connection, my friend who got a beast internet get 25 while he live at walking distance of my house. so you would think there's a zone where a better internet just doesn't do anything but really, i am pretty sure bandwidth isn't the only thing that can vary.
edit: to add
i dint test cf on hes pc myself, what i typed in the opening post is just speculations.
the difference in ping between you and your friend isn't that he has "beast" internet, it is the fact that his data takes a different route to the server than yours. ping is really dependent on the route your data takes, not the bandwidth.
another thing is, you are assuming a lot of packets are being dropped. when packets are dropped the data is lost. You would have players warping all over your screen, guns randomly switching, weapons not firing, and a slew of other problems if you lost that many packets. the reason the registry is bad is more or less the way the game servers interpret the information they are receiving. -
most of the packet lost probably hapen at the z8's server tbh. or its posible that som1 is only considered dead IF the person receive the packet saying hes dead ( thus making the: low pinger reg quicker argument invalid) and that would mean som1 with a bad internet connection when getting shot would be where the packet lost is. but seriously, the download rate is always way higher then the upload so there's no way peoples have such a bad internet.
there isn't that much packet loss in crossfire. packet loss isn't what is causing your shots to "not register". -
Actually if I were to get a 20 mb/s internet my ping wont go down. I have tested it.
Distance + internet speed = ping
That being said your internet speed doesnt affect your ping as much after a certain amount of bandwidth.
Connection speed matters only until your upload speed is higher than the amount of data the game wants to send.
If mumble xfire and all your programs (including crossfire) require 100kb/s and your upload speed is greater than 100kb/s, then your ping will remain relatively unaffected. In reality being near your max upload speed will still see affects on ping, but most modern cable internet packages have speeds > 1mb/s upload. This is way more data bandwidth than most games send. -
played a few games in uk, i was playing horribly, being tired and having changed my mouse sensitivity yet again. the other team had 3 hackers ( 2 guy 1 shoting with a m700, the other being inside the wall.) the rest of the players where also better then those you normally find in alpha. only a single 1 of my shot didn't reg. my reg against peoples with that kind of ping is the exact same in alpha, if not worst. i have tested it multiple time and my reg in the uk server is the exact same.
yes in theory a higher ping lower your reg rate, since it increase the chances a packet get lost. but a good internet connection will counter that.
You must me GOD then, because MINE reg is horrible with a 200+ ping, takes more than 10 m4a1 HITS TO KILL!
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