Free Bradley Manning
Comments
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I'd have to disagree there. While in our current society a completely transparent governing body is impossible, it should be something we strive to attain. Ideally there should be no need to hide anything, as these situations should not be happening. Call me a dreamer, but if people managed to set their greed and pride aside we could finally be a unified race.I am perfectly fine with leaks. I do not approve of how manning did it, but that is another argument in itself.
I think the government should be more transparent, however I do not want or wish for any type of fully transparent government. -
i am sure you are neither a big bad american, nor would you ever enjoy to kill people.
you are passionate and that is good if you can control it.
that last line is kind of ironic i think, do you agree
anyways, good day!
Sorry I don't consider slowness a religion or culture -
Green_Ranger wrote: »I'd have to disagree there. While in our current society a completely transparent governing body is impossible, it should be something we strive to attain. Ideally there should be no need to hide anything, as these situations should not be happening. Call me a dreamer, but if people managed to set their greed and pride aside we could finally be a unified race.
Ideally yes.
I don't see society changing to fit the government.
I could see the government changing to fit the society. -
Don't get me wrong, there is alot going on that I disagree strongly with. In this particular case, I can see the pilots actions as reasonable.
In no way am I saying anything to take away from the tragedy. I am just saying in the framework of the event, it was reasonable.
That is the problem then
I don't see nor does the law that:
1) Shooting a wounded and a clearly unarmed subject as reasonable, there simply is no excuse for this except if it were an honest mistake [they thought he was armed] which is this is clearly not the case here. Killing this guy breaches the ROE because he is no threat (unless the rules of engagement is kill anyone) and therefore a breach of law, and if the ROE is to kill anyone then that in itself is a war crime.
2) Shooting the rescuers of the unarmed subject who themselves are unarmed is not reasonable, there simply is no excuse for this except if it were an honest mistake [they thought he was armed] which is this is clearly not the case here. Killing these people breaches the ROE because they are no threat (unless the rules of engagement is kill anyone) and therefore a breach of law, and if the ROE is to kill anyone then that in itself is a war crime.
3) Firing on a location when it is known a civilian will get injured or killed and when the attack could of waited until the civilian had left the immediate area is not reasonable, there simply is no excuse for this except if it were an honest mistake [they thought he was armed] which is this is clearly not the case here or if the target was an immediate threat to the air crews safety. Targeting that building at that time breaches the ROE because there is no immediate threat (unless the rules of engagement is kill anyone) and therefore a breach of law, and if the ROE is to kill anyone then that in itself is a war crime.
3) Killing those that surrender is not reasonable even if that is how 'you normally carry on' or if it's 'a long tradition of war', because guess what it's against the law and not morally reasonable either.
How exactly are any of these things reasonable to you? or do you mean we should just cut them slack and 'ignore' it?
We are supposed to be better than them, we are there to free them remember "Operation Iraqi Freedom"? Torturing, war crimes, huge civilian deaths and sometimes deliberate ones at that is not delivering freedom to them. -
UKDissident wrote: »3) Killing those that surrender is not reasonable even if that is how 'you normally carry on' or if it's 'a long tradition of war', because guess what it's against the law and not morally reasonable either.
You must be talking about different video then I am. Nobody was surrendering in the video I am referring to. -
oh one more thing. that thread title...do not take it too serious. i chose it, so maybe the thread will get more feedback.
sadly, manning does´t not have much hope i think.
He has about as much hope as these people that commit war crimes do of getting prosecuted.:DYou must be talking about different video then I am. Nobody was surrendering in the video I am referring to.
I'm talking about this one http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=66d_1219663925 I posted 3, all show crimes. -
Yea, uproar on the forums. Go do something. I mean you're the leader of legendary Charon, you have to be able to organize some type of rally?
All you have done is spam "The Arrivals", and random 1 line chants for revolution.
Sir I do not claim to be a "Revolutionary" I do not claim to know all if any of the answers. I just want to see some response. I just want to feel that "Humanity" still exists in the heart and soul of the very people I try to reach. -
UKDissident wrote: »They couldn't kill him, it would never get that far even though by law it could go that far.
what if he had "health issues", even before being arrested? heart attack?
there might as well be a lee harvey oswald in that very same prison? -
what if he had "health issues", even before being arrested? heart attack?
there might as well be a lee harvey oswald in that very same prison?
Haha, that would be the only way to kill him.
They couldn't go for the death penalty I wouldn't think - Far too controversial.Is that guy carrying an umbrella?
It's not important what they had even if each had RPG's the actions afterwards by the aircrew is still damning. -
impresses me everytime how fast the pros can click a mousebutton. thats why i am a big fan of yours.
to my disadvantage, english is not my mother tongue, so i am not able to participate the way you natives do. so YES i am a foreigner, who did not shave for some days so i might look like a terrorist. good i am not in a combat zone, wouldn´t stand a chance against your reflexes.
Tool u wud be ded if I had a chance cos I am a englich profesor! And i can smell ur terorist incline> -
DUKEofYORK wrote: »Tool u wud be ded if I had a chance cos I am a englich profesor! And i can smell ur terorist incline>
U iz terror too, you question usa and troops that bring freedom for all even if it is by way of coffins:D
u need tsa pat down or go on no fly listz. -
Green_Ranger wrote: »It's kay, we'll all have men in suits knocking on our doors any time now for discussing this. If any one of us is missing tomorrow, know what happened!
Was'nt Me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_f6qFBQD9U -
So you're accusing people of being ridiculous for their ignorance in these situations without reading the whole argument?People are just ridiculous...you guys are talking about things you have no clue about.
Keep sitting at your computers saying "well jeez...that was inhumane"
Didn't even bother to read all of it cause some comments were just WOW.
Dunno if you've noticed (considering you haven't read all the comments) but even though the lot of us may not agree on certain points, we don't need to resort to name calling for argument's sake. I don't care if you're right or wrong, you won't get your point across if you keep mudslinging... just makes you look silly. -
Green_Ranger wrote: »So you're accusing people of being ridiculous for their ignorance in these situations without reading the whole argument?
Dunno if you've noticed (considering you haven't read all the comments) but even though the lot of us may not agree on certain points, we don't need to resort to name calling for argument's sake. I don't care if you're right or wrong, you won't get your point across if you keep mudslinging... just makes you look silly.
I'm not trying to get my point across. -
AS A last thought. If this occurrance was a "one off" I would feel a small bit happier. The fact is, and by the very language of the soldiers participating, this is a "normal occurrance". I dont put the blame on the brain-washed soldiers who are fighting the war for us. I dont put the blame on thier opponents, I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the shadow puppeteers who orchestrate the carnage that we all feel the brunt of.
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You are a minority though. The majority of Americans when polled do not support the legalization of drugs or prostitution.
My state of MA voted 2-1 to decriminalize weed. Also, parts of Canada have effectively legalized prostitution. Also, most people are idiots, and don't know what's good for them.Find me 1 thing that is so terribly bad/evil/corrupt that we should revolt. 1 thing from wikileaks.
I'd start with the Bilderberg information. We are owned by an international ruling class, and now it's obvious. There's more, including paying for child prostitots. I'm not going to list it all, but I'll just say that some countries have revolutions because there wasn't enough rain, or because some guy porked the wrong girl. My point was that it happens, we the debate is surprisingly civil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_published_by_WikiLeaksNobody knows where Wikileaks (but thank god he decided to give them to them rather than a foreign government, even though he did by association) alliances lie.
Wikileaks is bigger than Assange, and it can operate without him. It's safe to say that their volunteers wouldn't work for them unless the motives were pure.Worth noting however that the definition of 'murder' is somewhat scrambled during a war.
I don't know about you, but if I'm breaking into someone's house and 'accidentally' kill them, it's murder whether I say sorry or not. Please realize that there are billions of people on Earth who see it this way and hate us for it.Being from the midwest and relatively unwealthy, I have to many good friends deployed overseas to just sit back as people bash them. Sorry, not everyone is spoiled like you
That is another problem. They've created such a big lower class, that they have few options outside of military service. When everyone starts going off to war, it becomes difficult to support the troops and not the war. It's a genius tactic...and I'm not falling for it. Sure, the troops are there making money, and it's work, but that is *it*. A job. There is nothing honorable or special about what they are doing over there (Iraq/Afghanistan), they are simply 'enforcers' for the private interests that run the U.S.The death of civilians is always a terrible thing. This isn't something new and has gone on since the beginning of warfare.
THIS is exactly why we need wikileaks. The sooner the war becomes unpopular and we stop fighting it, the better. If the war ends even a day sooner, lives will be saved and wikileaks will have been worth it. -
Why does this thread smells hijackin' ...My state of MA voted 2-1 to decriminalize weed. Also, parts of Canada have effectively legalized prostitution. Also, most people are idiots, and don't know what's good for them.
I'd start with the Bilderberg information. We are owned by an international ruling class, and now it's obvious. There's more, including paying for child prostitots. I'm not going to list it all, but I'll just say that some countries have revolutions because there wasn't enough rain, or because some guy porked the wrong girl. My point was that it happens, we the debate is surprisingly civil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_published_by_WikiLeaks
Wikileaks is bigger than Assange, and it can operate without him. It's safe to say that their volunteers wouldn't work for them unless the motives were pure.
I don't know about you, but if I'm breaking into someone's house and 'accidentally' kill them, it's murder whether I say sorry or not. Please realize that were are billions of people on Earth who see it this way and hate us for it.
That is another problem. They've created such a big lower class, that they have few options outside of military service. When everyone starts going off to war, it becomes difficult to support the troops and not the war. It's a genius tactic...and I'm not falling for it. Sure, the troops are there making money, and it's work, but that is *it*. A job. There is nothing honorable or special about what they are doing over there (Iraq/Afghanistan), they are simply 'enforcers' for the private interests that run the U.S.
THIS is exactly why we need wikileaks. The sooner the war becomes unpopular and we stop fighting it, the better. If the war ends even a day sooner, lives will be saved and wikileaks will have been worth it. -
People are just ridiculous...you guys are talking about things you have no clue about.
The soldiers were having more fun in that chopper sitting there committing war crimes than I am now at home right now, so the war zone theory is out.
There was no risk to the pilots, there was no confusion in there actions they were relaxed, happy and clearly wanted excuses to kill "c'mon buddy just pick up a weapon" they know the ROE all to well.
If I am at work when war crimes happen, at home or on the toilet they are still war crimes.
You know if another country invaded your country to "liberate" you and that was your family being deliberately killed you wouldn't be so flippant.
IMO this guy in the below article had every right to kill the child if it so happened that way, and IMO was stupid not to take the shot, but this shows you how some decent humans do try to protect civilians:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340033/British-soldier-refused-shoot-insurgent-save-child.html -
UKDissident wrote: »The soldiers were having more fun in that chopper sitting there committing war crimes than I am now at home right now, so the war zone theory is out.
There was no risk to the pilots, there was no confusion in there actions they were relaxed, happy and clearly wanted excuses to kill "c'mon buddy just pick up a weapon" they know the ROE all to well.
If I am at work when war crimes happen, at home or on the toilet they are still war crimes.
You know if another country invaded your country to "liberate" you and that was your family being deliberately killed you wouldn't be so flippant.
IMO this guy in the below article had every right to kill the child if it so happened that way, and IMO was stupid not to take the shot, but this shows you how some decent humans do try to protect civilians:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340033/British-soldier-refused-shoot-insurgent-save-child.html
brave and stupid at the same time. he had all the luck in the world. i really have a hard time reading some articles. e. g that one of the soldier who ****d a 14 year old girl and killed her whole family. so sad what ppl are capable of doing, or what they become during war.
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