Free Bradley Manning
Comments
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And we'd all be cheering for the death penalty if he had just stolen them and released to some foregin government.
Now that he is a traitor that gave them to Wikileaks, he shouldn't be punished at all.
I'm all for wikileaks but this is ridiculous. He IS a criminal. -
Dont cloud the way forward with other agendas. get back on the way to truth and understading in the broad sense of the word.
As you already asked:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pbuYS0CogQ
then play your part
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57052421@N03/ -
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DUKEofYORK wrote: »Torture? Terror? Slags all of them...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnz8hwGQ9hA&feature=related
Cos we got all the time in the world!
i don t know. that 9/11-inside-job-theory seems so implausible to me. not even bush could ve done that. -
If we're going to define solitary confinement as torture then every country practices it.i just hope that Sweden/UK or whoever remembers, that it is against their law to hand over criminals to countries that exert torture.
Its a well-accepted form of security for high priority prisoners, and misbehaving prisoners although I'm sure hes the former.
Mind you its a military station, not a state prison or whatever. They don't abide by civic laws in the same sense. -
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i just hope that Sweden/UK or whoever remembers, that it is against their law to hand over criminals to countries that exert torture.
A swedish prosecutor voted against bail for assange
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/15/uk.wikileaks.investigation/index.html -
And we'd all be cheering for the death penalty if he had just stolen them and released to some foregin government.
Now that he is a traitor that gave them to Wikileaks, he shouldn't be punished at all.
I'm all for wikileaks but this is ridiculous. He IS a criminal.
He helped show that we commit war crimes as well... Ok he "stole" them as he was most likely briefed into it anyways.
Im sorry, but if our government and military commit such atrocious acts, at the very least we have a right to know why the rest of the world hates us. -
Its a weird article since swedish authorities have no power over foregin justice departments
Swedish prosecutory simply declared to the UK prosecutor that he/she opposes bail.
Even that scenario is denied by English and Swedish justice departments though.He helped show that we commit war crimes as well... Ok he "stole" them as he was most likely briefed into it anyways.
Im sorry, but if our government and military commit such atrocious acts, at the very least we have a right to know why the rest of the world hates us.
Theres only so far one can take "the ends justify the means". Mind you Bradley didn't publish the information or anything, he stole them. Wikileaks did the publishing.
Not sure how your justice system works, but here, it would go down like he gets charged with treason or whatever, THEN the trials for potential crimes committed (with files as evidence) start. The fact that those events were revealed doesn't make his acts any less illegal. -
He is a criminal, and you are kind of dumb.
To you anything that has "wikileaks" in it isn't a crime...
Wikileaks' finder isn't a criminal because he's a REPORTED, he did not release the information he only reported it to the public...
This guy released classified information, that is a crime. -
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He helped show that we commit war crimes as well... Ok he "stole" them as he was most likely briefed into it anyways.
Im sorry, but if our government and military commit such atrocious acts, at the very least we have a right to know why the rest of the world hates us.
I'm sorry, but the chopper incident isn't a war crime. (I'm assuming that is what you are referring to) -
I can't comment too much as I am at work and am unable to see the source link >.<, but I see it this way:
Very similar to the situation in the British drama " Edge of Darkness" (and the movie remake with Mel Gibson), when someone is exposed to sensitive data they are placing them selves in a situation full of risk. If that information goes against their moral guidelines, they are faced with either being compliant and "keeping the secret" at the cost of their morality, or standing up against what they feel is wrong.
In most places where delicate information is being handled, the employer (either private or government) usually places several clauses in the contract to prevent information from being "spilled", usually making such actions legally punishable. What I mean to say is: yes, it is illegal.
Flipping the coin to the other side, if you witness something you feel is incorrect in these situations... what would you do? Do you become a criminal for the sake of moral justice? I know I would.
If these people did this with the intention of rectifying something they feel was wrong, then kudos for their bravery. If their "cause" was simple hate towards the state or greed, then I'm sure they're get their share. Karma goes around. -
the leaks are just further proof of the crime being perpetrated against innocents. Not a written document of fact that you can take to court and portray as evidence. If ypu are happy to go along with the your hopes and ignorance, if you are happy to believe that the blatantly obvious is all a lie! Then sail on my friend.
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Green_Ranger wrote: »if you witness something you feel is incorrect in these situations... what would you do? Do you become a criminal for the sake of moral justice? I know I would.
The point of this conversation is that Manning didn't just release the chopper video he released a second combat air strike video as many diplomatic cables as he could get his hands on and very likely was also responsible for the Afghan war documents release as well. He did not scrutinize the information himself - He downloaded as much as he could dropped it in a brown paper bag and passed it off - guess what thats illegal. If he had taken the time to search through and find corruption on his own or came to some agreement with assange or whomever he released the information to only release things which showed corruption this would be a completely different story. -
DUKEofYORK wrote: »the leaks are just further proof of the crime being perpetrated against innocents. Not a written document of fact that you can take to court and portray as evidence. If ypu are happy to go along with the your hopes and ignorance, if you are happy to believe that the blatantly obvious is all a lie! Then sail on my friend.
I haven't read the afghan war documents or the diplomatic cables, but I have seen the chopper video.
All I have seen is the chopper video
I personally don't believe it was a war crime. Was it a tragedy? Yes, definitely. Was it a war crime? No. -
Thanks for the heads up, I wish I could read it my self.The point of this conversation is that Manning didn't just release the chopper video he released a second combat air strike video as many diplomatic cables as he could get his hands on and very likely was also responsible for the Afghan war documents release as well. He did not scrutinize the information himself - He downloaded as much as he could dropped it in a brown paper bag and passed it off - guess what thats illegal. If he had taken the time to search through and find corruption on his own or came to some agreement with assange or whomever he released the information to only release things which showed corruption this would be a completely different story.
I guess I agree with both of you. Your point of legality is definitely a very shaky road as laws aren't always right (I could list historical examples but you're bright enough to know what I mean
)
If information that didn't show faulty guidance -- but rather was secretive to protect lives-- was released, then that is incorrect from my moral standpoint. If he did it for money or for "hate/revenge", even more so.
That's the beauty of knowledge though. You can decide whether you think it was a war crime or not by having viewed the footage. Others in your position might come to a different conclusion, but by knowing we can argue over it and attempt to further our society on the correct path.I haven't read the afghan war documents or the diplomatic cables, but I have seen the chopper video.
All I have seen is the chopper video
I personally don't believe it was a war crime. Was it a tragedy? Yes, definitely. Was it a war crime? No. -
The thing is this, that the cost of humanity is so cheap. And the reasons behind the genocide (because it surley is) are for reasons that are false. And the makers of these falsehods are the very people who control our everyday life. Argue with me, convince yourself I am wrong, I wish to GOD I was:(
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Green_Ranger wrote: »That's the beauty of knowledge though. You can decide whether you think it was a war crime or not by having viewed the footage. Others in your position might come to a different conclusion, but by knowing we can argue over it and attempt to further our society on the correct path.
They had RPG's and AKM's simple as that. The reporters were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
http://cryptome.org/reuters-kill.zip -
But could it have been prevented? Obviously it is too late for it to make a difference, but public awareness of these types of situations can lead to positive changes that can prevent similar incidents from happening again. Saving face is not more important than saving lives.They had RPG's and AKM's simple as that. The reporters were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
http://cryptome.org/reuters-kill.zip -
Green_Ranger wrote: »But could it have been prevented? Obviously it is too late for it to make a difference, but public awareness of these types of situations can lead to positive changes that can prevent similar incidents from happening again. Saving face is not more important than saving lives.
No, I completely agree. These situations are always terrible, I just can't see this being considered a war crime and prosecuting the pilots. I consider it a tragedy, but not a war crime. -
Me neither, mistakes unfortunately happen. There will be cases though that negligence played a role in a tragedy, and we need to be aware to push for changes.No, I completely agree. These situations are always terrible, I just can't see this being considered a war crime and prosecuting the pilots. I consider it a tragedy, but not a war crime.
The unfortunate truth is that people will always need to see a "bad guy". It's a human trait to look for an antagonistic figure to judge ourselves against. We, as a race, aren't at a level where we can recognize right and wrong without both being present. -
Let's also not forget about Adrian Lamo. Manning confided in him for advice, and Lamo straight up snitched him out to the FBI. I've said it before, in any decent society, snitches get stitches. I encourage anyone who meets him to treat him like a snitch (Columbian necktie, driveby, baseball bat, w/e).i don t know. that 9/11-inside-job-theory seems so implausible to me. not even bush could ve done that.
Bush didn't do it. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Giuliani, Wolfowitz, and other neo-cons did it. The "official version" of events is so outlandish and implausible that it is the conspiracy theory.Releasing classified information is illegal. Simple as that.
Quite right. Rosa Parks and Willie Nelson broke the law as well. Not surprisingly, I now have little respect for the law...No, I completely agree. These situations are always terrible, I just can't see this being considered a war crime and prosecuting the pilots. I consider it a tragedy, but not a war crime.
The fact that we are in Iraq at all is a war crime in and of itself. Water boarding is a war crime. The Contra scandal was a war crime. The use of white phosphorus is a war crime. We crossed the line so long ago, we don't even know what crime looks like when we're funding it. -
copy pasta
There are a few important things that were revealed but did not get much coverage:
1. The Afghanistan elections were fixed with American support, which makes this whole democracy thing a sham.
2. The Chinese government are confirmed (whereas it was simply alleged before) to have attacked and hacked into Google and other US companies' servers to get data on dissidents and other targets of the communists. If they were a banana republic rather than China this would be a declaration of war, but w/e.
3. The whole Korean situation is a lot more fuzzy than anyone thought. If you want to know more, read some papers.
4. The geopolitical situation in the Arab world is not as what the liberals suppose, there are very good reasons to take out Iran.
There's probably more, but then I don't spend all my days trawling through cables. The leaks have revealed fairly important things that people should be more aware of, and that through activism can influence. -
The military has laws, and they're pretty strict concerning the leaking of classified information. If the stuff getting leaked really needed to be leaked (i.e. it's illegal), there are channels to go through within the command structure of the military to deal with it. It's not every security analyst's job to decide what the public deserves to know. There are officers who are responsible for declassifying information. It's their job, not yours, and not anyone else's.
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