Competative Scrims ~ Santoria
Hey, Santoria was the latest wogl map (I think) and so I have been playing it a lot with my team. However, I find it kind of a difficult map to call strats on.
It seems to me like there aren't a lot of options...
In .Paradox, we like to play Semi-agressive A-site picks, and work up bridge slowly, and having played vs a few teams (including standby) it looks as though most teams do the same thing.
One strat that worked quite well for us (adaptation of a BW one) was to do a full rush A, get bomb down, camp site, win the round... then do it again the very next round, except with one member flanking through b-site. Pretty standard, held back at the end of bridge and played with their 2 guys in sewer until the flanker got there.
What I'm wondering is if this map can be played with an agressive B / B orientated gameplay. It seems to me like b-window is too difficult to get to, and the one way into site is perfect for ak and m4 spray to take out your entire team if you are dumb enough to full push. it.
Also, kind of wondering what actual good players think of this map. Is it good? Unbalanced? Too TF2 cartoonish?
tl;dr
Is playing B site as BL on Santoria a good idea?
Is Santoria a good map for scrimming?
It seems to me like there aren't a lot of options...
In .Paradox, we like to play Semi-agressive A-site picks, and work up bridge slowly, and having played vs a few teams (including standby) it looks as though most teams do the same thing.
One strat that worked quite well for us (adaptation of a BW one) was to do a full rush A, get bomb down, camp site, win the round... then do it again the very next round, except with one member flanking through b-site. Pretty standard, held back at the end of bridge and played with their 2 guys in sewer until the flanker got there.
What I'm wondering is if this map can be played with an agressive B / B orientated gameplay. It seems to me like b-window is too difficult to get to, and the one way into site is perfect for ak and m4 spray to take out your entire team if you are dumb enough to full push. it.
Also, kind of wondering what actual good players think of this map. Is it good? Unbalanced? Too TF2 cartoonish?
tl;dr
Is playing B site as BL on Santoria a good idea?
Is Santoria a good map for scrimming?
Comments
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BlindEagle wrote: »I dunno but I find it very hard to take control over sites when your GR.
Expecially B site.
Its one of those maps where teams have to play head-to-head, and camping/playing picks is not an option.
I don't really think Santoria is the map for scrims.
That's really odd, I find B-site the easier to take over once planted, and when we play we do play picks.
However I've found pushing as GR can be very nice, especially at B.Excludable wrote: »I think it's GR sided.
Play 2 B, 1 Mid, 1 A, 1 rotator.
Mid picks out anyone trying to window so the 2 at B can focus on the room which is really easy to pick people.
You only need 1 at A playing in-site/tunnels
rotator rotates.
What about a full A push? The tunnel rotater would pick at most 2, and they still would have bomb down and control of site. -
iTwAsLuccK wrote: »That's really odd, I find B-site the easier to take over once planted, and when we play we do play picks.
However I've found pushing as GR can be very nice, especially at B.
yeah but playing picks in the beggining of the round.
Its kinda hard. -
Ususally teams holding B will be watching the room, and the upper windows. If you really want to take B, get some early picks up mid, work your way up window. Meanwhile, have 2-3 players rush the room that you said you could get ak'd from, but try jumping out the window. After you create the distraction, the person watching window will most likely be turn his/her attention to you, allowing the 1-2 players to get thorugh the window to B.
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Santoria is awful.
If you don't have a player on BL who can throw a smoke from spawn and smoke up mid, your team is toast.
One GR sniper locks down mid, two rifles play at either site at the (OBVIOUS AND GAY) choke points.
Honestly, two GR rifles crossfiring in the box room, one watching the main walkway, the other watching vent.
Then the other two GR just play by the doorway into the other site. I like to push up into the hut and just wait for the first guy to walk in. If you full rush either site you get sprayed down.
And if I have a great spawn as GR, I can hear you guys coming when you're still under mid house, before most teams start to walk.
HOWEVER, once mid is open (smoked up or you kill their sniper) then it gets interesting. -
have to agree with you there, it seems like (as BL) you dont really have many options, apart from slowly picking out people or do a full A site push.... its too GR orientated, i find B site especially hard to get (as BL), as u said, u can easily get mowed down there.
going mid----> usually one GR sniper waiting for u there, and POW u get picked out...
going B ----> get spray and prayed...
going A ----> 1-2 guys can get picked out, but i reckon u can get the bomb down, but ... if u repeat this tactic to often, GR is gonna have 3 guys up there
so yeah... have to agree with BROOSEONERRR that smoking up a few places is quite a good idea.
I'd say its a challenging map, not played much, but i reckon its fun map to play at times (a nice break from the usual SnD maps). -
tl;dr -> Smoke up places, attack, fall back.
Confuse them, get them rotating, then kill someone. Was in a scrim today and we sent 4 people attacking a site (full nades, lots of shooting, making them THINK we were committed), smoked up mid, I creeped to the other site and got a kill, then fell back.
Thanks to the huge round timers, we could usually get 2 kills before we even attacked, and 1 person watching a site against 5 ain't doin nothin.
So for practice, everyone get their smoke grenade in their first slot, then go BW FFA and practice throwing them. -
What we found effective on GR for Santoria was...
3 b 1 sewer/A vent and 1 mid. Rotations were fast and the mid was usually a sniper. So he would pop on the ladder and take out 2 guys on the rush in the vent guy would hold it as well. Then if they eventually took it over. We'd go to a 2 a 2 mid 1 b scenario.
Giving them different looks on offence.
For BL this was a hard side.
You don't have much options but mid, long a and b house. However faking and flanking became extremely useful. A sniper to watch for the rotates on BL was useful as hell. I was usually the sniper so I went mid as my team pushed in B. I moved up mid slowly and picked them off as they went for the rotate. So yeah.
I would say this map is extremely GR sided but an overall fun map to scrim on. -
i've never actually scrimmed a tough team in Santoria and never done practises there but as ye've all said its obviously really favoured towards GR. What i've seen to work though (from BL) is when pushing B is to use flash and smoke most importantly. Smoke the windows,and throw flash nades off windows and the rooms door to take the more obvious spots. This obviously would be a full rush.
I think its smartest to try play picks with the guy/sniper in mid as the most important player. Faking a site works well but you need to have practised and organized well since GR have a huge tactical advantage. -
through 2-3 scrims against devious and instinct and just running around the map brainstorming we found some good b smokes to cut off alot of common angles then the rush just comes down to out shooting the other team. we also like to smoke up mid and get 1-2 on the window ledge, flash in once all of smokes in the site are up and take the site. It works really well, although the map is heavily GR sided the better team can still get the full 9 rounds on bl side.
also i think its dumb to only have 1 guy at A on GR, it is far too dificult to hold a 4-5 man rush in that box room for 1 guy without an xm8. playing 1 A guy in/near sewer and another crossfiring the box room from the site entrance is pretty standard so if it is a fast b the sewer player is already there and the mid guy can keep his eyes on the window/mid.
the map is more fun than i thought it would be. -
Protip (for GR): Your accuracy isn't effected by being on a ladder. If they full rush A site, your mid player can hop onto the ladder, crouch (to be less of a target) and slide down the ladder, take a shot, go back up, peek down again and repeat. Works great with an awm.
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Head down to A site (The site with the two containers, I always get the two mixed up)
DJ up the boxes, then jump into the little window, make a pick, fall down, pick from stairs.
Mid of course. You can also make some shots into the hut from the staircase at B site.
But well placed smokes are really important in this map. They will ruin your day. -
BROOSEONERRR wrote: »Protip (for GR): Your accuracy isn't effected by being on a ladder. If they full rush A site, your mid player can hop onto the ladder, crouch (to be less of a target) and slide down the ladder, take a shot, go back up, peek down again and repeat. Works great with an awm.
whack a mole
but the other way around -
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