Conclusion to Red Dot Theory, BIGGER issues
Before I continue, I just want to clarify that I take no sides in this event to prove xfam0usx as a cheater, or not a cheater. I feel that this post will help to bring forth a learning experience and realization to this whole incident.
I am still taking part in this situation to rectify an issue that the community isn’t seeing. On the surface, we can all agree that the topic focused on is whether xfam0usx cheated his way through the finals or not. With the supported technical facts as stated by FG Jon, Saidin, Z8 team, etc. I couldn’t agree more that those are all true. The frame loss, the ghosted effect by the webcam’s low shutter speed, etc. are all true to what has been told. Although, that isn’t the main concern here. Proving someone hacks or doesn’t in an online tournament is 0% guaranteed as there is ABSOLUTELY NO way to deem someone as cheating or not.
The fact of the matter are those who concluded xfam0usx as cheating, especially those higher ups who prove that he ISN’T. The higher ups shouldn’t have determined that:
Though they stated technical facts that could have been the cause towards the Red Dot Theory, it does not change the fact that it was immediately concluded.
Another point to bring forth is the idea that rules were skewed in favour to resolve a player’s potential problem to the “anti-cheat” system.
Players are supposed to use Bandicam in accordance to the rules. I understand that people may have technical issues with Bandicam and if their computer could handle the capture rates, although, in xfam0usx’s situation, there really shouldn’t have been an exception.
It is evident that xfam0usx had webcammed all of the matches, and that he may have technical issues with Bandicam. Although, in an Xfire chat between xfam0usx and FG|Jon:
It is evident that there shouldn’t have been a frame rate issue and that the rules shouldn’t have changed because of this. I’ve heard from sources that the reason xfam0usx webcammed was because:
It doesn’t matter if people are accusing him of that. The point of the matter is that once the rules are laid out, it is finalized and ought to be reinforced. Webcamming could have been a SUPPLEMENT to Bandicamming instead of a replacement. This was an obvious risk that the admins needed to take, and because of this, ended in a catastrophe.
Instead of wasting time trying to prove whether xfam0usx is cheating or not, I think we all need to recognize that rules are rules, and once stated to the public, are then finalized. It must be reinforced, and not changed in favour of a player’s problem. It is the player’s responsibility to make sure that their technicalities are set aside before focusing on their own game. In this scenario, there was absolutely NO reason for Bandicam to have been replaced by webcamming.
We can all stop to assuming that xfam0usx is a cheater, or stop to proving that he is not. At this point, it is too late, what’s done has already been done. If anything, this is an eye-opener for the higher-ups and admins, sure they have been affected by this situation and could have suffered the consequences, but for those who continue to try to prove a side is further wasting your own time. WCG CF 2013 is coming up, instead of putting time in this matter, go focus on being the best and making your way to WCG, even bigger than CFStars.
I conclude this note stating that I have not broken any rules for this thread to be closed down, and am simply making this to emphasize on a hidden issue way more severe than a player in question.
I am still taking part in this situation to rectify an issue that the community isn’t seeing. On the surface, we can all agree that the topic focused on is whether xfam0usx cheated his way through the finals or not. With the supported technical facts as stated by FG Jon, Saidin, Z8 team, etc. I couldn’t agree more that those are all true. The frame loss, the ghosted effect by the webcam’s low shutter speed, etc. are all true to what has been told. Although, that isn’t the main concern here. Proving someone hacks or doesn’t in an online tournament is 0% guaranteed as there is ABSOLUTELY NO way to deem someone as cheating or not.
The fact of the matter are those who concluded xfam0usx as cheating, especially those higher ups who prove that he ISN’T. The higher ups shouldn’t have determined that:
we have found that xfam0usx has not been hacking/cheating.
Though they stated technical facts that could have been the cause towards the Red Dot Theory, it does not change the fact that it was immediately concluded.
Another point to bring forth is the idea that rules were skewed in favour to resolve a player’s potential problem to the “anti-cheat” system.
If we cannot get an AC we will be using bandicam.
Players are supposed to use Bandicam in accordance to the rules. I understand that people may have technical issues with Bandicam and if their computer could handle the capture rates, although, in xfam0usx’s situation, there really shouldn’t have been an exception.
It is evident that xfam0usx had webcammed all of the matches, and that he may have technical issues with Bandicam. Although, in an Xfire chat between xfam0usx and FG|Jon:
[01:15] FG | Jon: what's your fps ingame
[01:15] twitch.tv/tdlxfam0usx: about 200 without bandi
[01:15] twitch.tv/tdlxfam0usx: 170ish with
It is evident that there shouldn’t have been a frame rate issue and that the rules shouldn’t have changed because of this. I’ve heard from sources that the reason xfam0usx webcammed was because:
the reason he started recording with cam is because people accused him of using bandicam bypass. The admins knew this so they agreed to it
It doesn’t matter if people are accusing him of that. The point of the matter is that once the rules are laid out, it is finalized and ought to be reinforced. Webcamming could have been a SUPPLEMENT to Bandicamming instead of a replacement. This was an obvious risk that the admins needed to take, and because of this, ended in a catastrophe.
Instead of wasting time trying to prove whether xfam0usx is cheating or not, I think we all need to recognize that rules are rules, and once stated to the public, are then finalized. It must be reinforced, and not changed in favour of a player’s problem. It is the player’s responsibility to make sure that their technicalities are set aside before focusing on their own game. In this scenario, there was absolutely NO reason for Bandicam to have been replaced by webcamming.
We can all stop to assuming that xfam0usx is a cheater, or stop to proving that he is not. At this point, it is too late, what’s done has already been done. If anything, this is an eye-opener for the higher-ups and admins, sure they have been affected by this situation and could have suffered the consequences, but for those who continue to try to prove a side is further wasting your own time. WCG CF 2013 is coming up, instead of putting time in this matter, go focus on being the best and making your way to WCG, even bigger than CFStars.
I conclude this note stating that I have not broken any rules for this thread to be closed down, and am simply making this to emphasize on a hidden issue way more severe than a player in question.
Comments
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I have nothing else to say.
Id like to point out,
This is the CFGL ruleset, and i DID NOT say famous could use a webcam for the CFGL event. I'm not saying a different person did, but i was playing and had no say over anything like that.
I DID say he could record with a webcam in CFL.
Just making that clear. -
I conclude this note stating that I have not broken any rules for this thread to be closed down, and am simply making this to emphasize on a hidden issue way more severe than a player in question.
I guess I wasted my 8 hours then immediately determining the case.
I also was very clear that I was only referencing the particular matches in question, IE the finals of the that qualifying tournament. Since that was the major factor in determining whether we were going to let him (and that team) continue on to China for the CF Stars.
Also, while not in the initial thread, I did apologize and admit the fact that he recorded the video via a webcam was a failure of the organizational crew involved.
I'm not trying to "hide" that.
There was no favoritism. It was simply because recording a video of yourself playing the game is pretty close to being at a LAN and not using any cheats, ie very difficult to cheat on.
Ultimately I allowed this to happen. The CFL had the rules, but it was told to me that this was going to happen and I allowed the video tape to be recorded.
I was not under the impression that the quality was going to be so low. I think from the research that our team has done over (now multiple) business days (8+ hours) we would have been able to prove without a doubt no hacking was going on with this game. But the blurryness of the video footage is going to create doubt.
We are sticking by our answer after our investigation for the sake of the event at hand.
Future events need to be further improved upon by enforcing the rules, having an AC, or being on Bandi at a higher quality etc. But these things I've already addressed directly to you, in another thread. -
So if the rules state bandicam is required, and you use a webcam without official CFGL admin's approval, then why are we discussing this still?
Because the appropriate authorities did not take action correctly, and it is now too late. -
So if the rules state bandicam is required, and you use a webcam without official CFGL admin's approval, then why are we discussing this still?
Exactly my point, there's no reason to continue the Red Dot event[GM]Saidin wrote: »I guess I wasted my 8 hours then immediately determining the case.
I also was very clear that I was only referencing the particular matches in question, IE the finals of the that qualifying tournament. Since that was the major factor in determining whether we were going to let him (and that team) continue on to China for the CF Stars.
Also, while not in the initial thread, I did apologize and admit the fact that he recorded the video via a webcam was a failure of the organizational crew involved.
I'm not trying to "hide" that.
There was no favoritism. It was simply because recording a video of yourself playing the game is pretty close to being at a LAN and not using any cheats, ie very difficult to cheat on.
Ultimately I allowed this to happen. The CFL had the rules, but it was told to me that this was going to happen and I allowed the video tape to be recorded.
I was not under the impression that the quality was going to be so low. I think from the research that our team has done over (now multiple) business days (8+ hours) we would have been able to prove without a doubt no hacking was going on with this game. But the blurryness of the video footage is going to create doubt.
We are sticking by our answer after our investigation for the sake of the event at hand.
Future events need to be further improved upon by enforcing the rules, having an AC, or being on Bandi at a higher quality etc. But these things I've already addressed directly to you, in another thread.
I understand what you are saying and agree to it. It was just organizational issues that caused for this to have happened. There was no real notification to any other teams that xfam0usx was using a webcam instead of Bandicam, otherwise, most of the teams would have webcammed because of technical issues. We aren't all using the same computer.
I'm not disputing the idea the Carbon should go or not go for this whole reason, I'm simply making a statement that if a tournament is rushed and unorganized, that the event would result in an eventual downfall of some sort.
I have no intention in criticizing how yourself or anyone else deals with the situation. This is a general statement for everyone and for anyone who wants to host their own tournament -
To make a long story short for Malice.
Teams are mad that you made an exception for one player because he is person "A", and did not tell anyone else. Nothing to do with the issue at hand, but for the simple fact that you let him webcam his match.
Many players use very weak rigs, and given the chance would webcam matches over using bandicam/other recording software. -
To make a long story short for Malice.
Teams are mad that you made an exception for one player because he is person "A", and did not tell anyone else. Nothing to do with the issue at hand, but for the simple fact that you let him webcam his match.
Many players use very weak rigs, and given the chance would webcam matches over using bandicam/other recording software.
But the problem is that Famous COULD use Bandi without lagging or interfering with the gameplay.
Of course I didn't know that when he asked if he could use Webcam over Bandi. -
But the problem is that Famous COULD use Bandi without lagging or interfering with the gameplay.
Of course I didn't know that when he asked if he could use Webcam over Bandi.
But that's the point of the TLDR version I posted JP. Weather he can use it or not, the fact was that an exception was made without letting others know and that's not acceptable. -
But the problem is that Famous COULD use Bandi without lagging or interfering with the gameplay.
Of course I didn't know that when he asked if he could use Webcam over Bandi.
I told fam0us to comment on the thread, he will soon. There's a reason why he couldn't bandi, it was not dealing with fps, more of other issues -
But that's the point of the TLDR version I posted JP. Weather he can use it or not, the fact was that an exception was made without letting others know and that's not acceptable.
When I was asked if Famous could use a Webcam I wasnt too sure myself. I asked a few others that have been following the league and others said that he used them for previous matches along with streaming. Since he was allowed to use the webcam previously it was allowed for him to use for the CF Stars matches.
These type of questions were never asked because no one ever had a problem with Famous using a webcam before. But ever since this "Bust video" came out, people now assume he can or has been cheating.
If you got a problem with something, then why not bring it up before the fact? -
When I was asked if Famous could use a Webcam I wasnt too sure myself. I asked a few others that have been following the league and others said that he used them for previous matches along with streaming. Since he was allowed to use the webcam previously it was allowed for him.
These type of questions were never asked because no one ever had a problem with Famous using a webcam before. But ever since this "Bust video" came out, people now assume he can or has been cheating.
If you got a problem with something, then why not bring it up before the fact?
people didn't bring it up, because people did not know.
in CFL, the rules allowed bandi-cam, so people were OK with it.
in CFGL the rules were ONLY bandi, so people were NOT OK with it. -
people didn't bring it up, because people did not know.
in CFL, the rules allowed bandi-cam, so people were OK with it.
in CFGL the rules were ONLY bandi, so people were NOT OK with it.
Then people shouldn't assume he uses an overlay on Bandi.
If people didn't say that, then he would have used Bandi without any worries. Its the Hackusation of THE COMPETITIVE COMMUNITY that makes him use a Webcam instead of Bandi.
Give yourselves a pat on the back. -
Then people shouldn't assume he uses an overlay on Bandi.
If people didn't say that, then he would have used Bandi without any worries. Its the Hackusation of THE COMPETITIVE COMMUNITY that makes him use a Webcam instead of Bandi.
Give yourselves a pat on the back.
I have no idea what you two are discussing.
Again, the purpose of the topic is why the exception was made without consulting everyone. It was a poor call. -
I have no idea what you two are discussing.
Again, the purpose of the topic is why the exception was made without consulting everyone. It was a poor call.
yes, John is bringing this way of topic and I was silly enough to try to respond. -
we SHOULD ALSO LOOK TO THE FUTURE AND FIND A WAY TO PROVIDE OR HELP IN SOME WAY TO GETTING A REAL ANTI-CHEAT!! That should be the NUMBER 1 GOAL OF ANY LEAGUE COMING OUT FORGET ABOUT GETTING A WEBSITE 1ST (THATS NOT HARD).....GET A ANTI-CHEAT EVERYONE CAN TRUST AND MAKE SURE IT WORKS!!!!!
-
S-N-I-P-E-S wrote: »Famous gets 170 fps recording, but still uses a webcam.
I get 60 fps recording, I dont use a webcam.
Suck it up famous
Bandi overlay cheat
People complained about him using Bandi, People complain about Webcam, people will complain when he is on client.
Doesnt get old.... -
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Laundry_OG wrote: »we SHOULD ALSO LOOK TO THE FUTURE AND FIND A WAY TO PROVIDE OR HELP IN SOME WAY TO GETTING A REAL ANTI-CHEAT!! That should be the NUMBER 1 GOAL OF ANY LEAGUE COMING OUT FORGET ABOUT GETTING A WEBSITE 1ST (THATS NOT HARD).....GET A ANTI-CHEAT EVERYONE CAN TRUST AND MAKE SURE IT WORKS!!!!!
easier said than done. -
But the problem is that Famous COULD use Bandi without lagging or interfering with the gameplay.
Of course I didn't know that when he asked if he could use Webcam over Bandi.
Without interfering with my gameplay. Are you absolutely sure about this? Want to know the reason I recorded with bandicam everyday 24/7 (which is why I started making scrim clips in the first place)? FPS isn't the only issue when running bandicam, mouse lag is another. Bandicam, without a doubt gives some people horrible fps issues, and others other issues. Mine was mouse lag. I got used to it by playing with bandicam 24/7 for like 3 months. I even played the first 75% of CFL with bandicam, hence the matches montage I made. After I realized that I had a very good chance of making it to LAN, I wanted to get used to playing without the mouselag because I would obviously not have it at LAN. I stopped recording and played for a few weeks, and when I played a match I used my phone to record which was extremely difficult to set up. Then all that controversy with the overlay stuff started to come around, so instead of not recording scrims, I started to record with the phone and got annoyed at it falling all the time so I got a webcam. Case in point, I got bad mouse lag with bandicam and hadn't played with it for almost a month before I even purchased the webcam.
Don't believe me? Ask the people I played with for all those months. I constantly complained about the mouse lag. Ask Andrej, he gets the mouse lag with bandicam also, but he gets high fps. FPS wasn't the problem.
It honestly felt like my mouse was lagged on its input. Like when I moved it, it responded a millisecond later or something along with being slower on movement.
Each PC has it's own issue. My old crappy PC was able to use FRAPS to record. Not all the time, but about half the time it could handle it. It couldn't handle Bandicam or Growler though for some reason. My new PC cannot handle FRAPS or Growler but it can handle Bandi FPS-wise. It still has its issues though. -
Without interfering with my gameplay. Are you absolutely sure about this? Want to know the reason I recorded with bandicam everyday 24/7 (which is why I started making scrim clips in the first place)? FPS isn't the only issue when running bandicam, mouse lag is another. Bandicam, without a doubt gives some people horrible fps issues, and others other issues. Mine was mouse lag. I got used to it by playing with bandicam 24/7 for like 3 months. I even played the first 75% of CFL with bandicam, hence the matches montage I made. After I realized that I had a very good chance of making it to LAN, I wanted to get used to playing without the mouselag because I would obviously not have it at LAN. I stopped recording and played for a few weeks, and when I played a match I used my phone to record which was extremely difficult to set up. Then all that controversy with the overlay stuff started to come around, so instead of not recording scrims, I started to record with the phone and got annoyed at it falling all the time so I got a webcam. Case in point, I got bad mouse lag with bandicam and hadn't played with it for almost a month before I even purchased the webcam.
Don't believe me? Ask the people I played with for all those months. I constantly complained about the mouse lag. Ask Andrej, he gets the mouse lag with bandicam also, but he gets high fps. FPS wasn't the problem.
It honestly felt like my mouse was lagged on its input. Like when I moved it, it responded a millisecond later or something along with being slower on movement.
Each PC has it's own issue. My old crappy PC was able to use FRAPS to record. Not all the time, but about half the time it could handle it. It couldn't handle Bandicam or Growler though for some reason. My new PC cannot handle FRAPS or Growler but it can handle Bandi FPS-wise. It still has its issues though.
What mouse and what hertz is it?
What processor do you have? -
Long story short, the competitive scene for this game is absolute garbage. Reason being is that an online qualifier for an INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENT GUARANTEED $5,000 had no anti-cheat program. Pathetic. Personally I believe xfamousx had done something illegal, based off his competitive history of not winning ANY IMPORTANT online tournaments since he's played this game. Not trying to bash him at all, but when a player that has accomplished nothing in this game wins a huge online tournament, he better have some credentials, instead of being infamous for cheating lol. Grats on the win though, I understand players can get better over time after practice.
This discussion has been closed.
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