Z8Games Official Ruling on recent Carbon Controversy
Comments
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Just want to put my two cents in.
At this point, there is ABSOLUTELY NO POSSIBILITY TO PROVE THAT FAMOUS IS GUILTY, OR NOT GUILTY. The event has already been done, and there's no way to turn back time and take second precautions. That is to say, unless famous himself admits to cheating, we can't conclude to a final verdict that he is innocent.
"During the matches between Hammertime and Carbon for the 2013 Final Qualification matches for the CrossFire Stars tournament we have found that xfam0usx has not been hacking."
-- [GM] Saidin
This is an eye opener for Z8 that they need to focus on the competitive technicalities rather than the actual competitive events.
While there may not be any consequences or any turn arounds with a "re-tourney" for the NA spot to represent CFStars, it is too late to make any changes now. Yes, we may have someone that has a case open for potentially hacking, but the most that will happen now is tarnishing a name and reputation.
I conclude my statement saying that we can't say that famous is innocent, given the sources that we currently have, nor can we say that he is guilty. For future reference, ESPECIALLY for an event this big, (fly-off trip to China to compete against other countries for thousand of dollars grand prize), Z8 games needs to be able to fund a LAN event to determine LEGITIMATELY who represents CFNA.
If that's your logic than I can just as easily say you can't prove or disprove that any of the other 9 players were cheating.
Applying that to a single player is unfair. Obviously a LAN would have been ideal, however in this case that was an impossibility due to time constraints. -
Another LAN eh? I'm right on it!
Glad to hear that there's another potential LAN coming up, but the point I'm trying to make is for an event THIS big, bigger than any FGLan or Chicago Lan or whatever LAN combined, there should be ABSOLUTELY NO reason that there aren't any funds or time to schedule a qualifying LAN. CFBrasil did it, CF China did it, CF Phillipines did it...
If we're reputable enough to be able to get invited and funded for an event like this, there can't be any excuse to schedule one.
Unless we knew about the invite long before, but procrastinated till now, just goes to reflect how we manage our time.
EDIT:[MOD]Denxi wrote: »If that's your logic than I can just as easily say you can't prove or disprove that any of the other 9 players were cheating.
Applying that to a single player is unfair. Obviously a LAN would have been ideal, however in this case that was an impossibility due to time constraints.
Who knows? They could have been cheating as well. But no one else brought up a case about other players until now, so its only reasonable that it gets looked on rather than ignored.
Also Denxi, as a MOD, instead of ridiculing another player for a potential case he has brought up, I think your "title" has better responsibilities than that. -
Glad to hear that there's another potential LAN coming up, but the point I'm trying to make is for an event THIS big, bigger than any FGLan or Chicago Lan or whatever LAN combined, there should be ABSOLUTELY NO reason that there aren't any funds or time to schedule a qualifying LAN. CFBrasil did it, CF China did it, CF Phillipines did it...
If we're reputable enough to be able to get invited and funded for an event like this, there can't be any excuse to schedule one.
Unless we knew about the invite long before, but procrastinated till now, just goes to reflect how we manage our time.
I support this. -
boratCARL0SS wrote: »this is trueeee
The OP made me sad with the way they addressed the issue. They should not be going to China and a majority of the clips mav posted was more than enough proof to prove he wasn't legit. However saidin just took 1 of the clips that showed nothing at all and acts like it proves he's legit. Mav's description of the cheat didn't exactly help his case, but if you watched the whole video and used common sense you can clearly see cheats in some of the clips.
Nonetheless, gl to carbon in China without your cheater topping. -
I conclude my statement saying that we can't say that famous is innocent, given the sources that we currently have, nor can we say that he is guilty. For future reference, ESPECIALLY for an event this big, (fly-off trip to China to compete against other countries for thousand of dollars grand prize), Z8 games needs to be able to fund a LAN event to determine LEGITIMATELY who represents CFNA.
Compress a recorded video and watch for artifacting. I clearly showed an example of how phantom "red dots" can appear by doing such. It's not difficult to reproduce this in videos. Even some older webcam youtube videos can be switched to the lowest quality to create the same effect.
The way you have put this here suggests that you still believe the original submitted hackusation video.
The hackusation video that was submitted shows no proof of a hack existing. Just an assumption stated over and over. No matter how many times you say "honestly" doesn't make it fact.
We've shown here that be using facts and logic you can come to the conclusion that he was not hacking.
I respect you guys and your opinion, and there is still a long way to go with learning and improving on events. But it's pretty clear here that the points brought up in this video are clearly false. And if those points are false, what other points do you have of that video that suggests he is hacking.
We've said we'll still take evidence submissions, and we'll be glad to discuss the case. As far as the actual championship goes, the decision has been made and nothing at this point will change that particular fate. However there is always room to issue action after the fact, and improve on it for future events. Especially with WCG coming up.
Please let me know via PM if you have any further evidence, beyond red dots, to submit for this case (if my inbox is open you can try on Monday). -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »Compress a recorded video and watch for artifacting. I clearly showed an example of how phantom "red dots" can appear by doing such. It's not difficult to reproduce this in videos. Even some older webcam youtube videos can be switched to the lowest quality to create the same effect.
The way you have put this here suggests that you still believe the original submitted hackusation video.
The hackusation video that was submitted shows no proof of a hack existing. Just an assumption stated over and over. No matter how many times you say "honestly" doesn't make it fact.
We've shown here that be using facts and logic you can come to the conclusion that he was not hacking.
I respect you guys and your opinion, and there is still a long way to go with learning and improving on events. But it's pretty clear here that the points brought up in this video are clearly false. And if those points are false, what other points do you have of that video that suggests he is hacking.
We've said we'll still take evidence submissions, and we'll be glad to discuss the case. As far as the actual championship goes, the decision has been made and nothing at this point will change that particular fate. However there is always room to issue action after the fact, and improve on it for future events. Especially with WCG coming up.
Please let me know via PM if you have any further evidence, beyond red dots, to submit for this case (if my inbox is open you can try on Monday).
He was cheating
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpe7EucczdQ
Please explain why there is a dot on the minimap that is exactly where the player is and the dot is moving with the player.
btw sorry if I sound hostile, but I'm confident that he does cheat yet he still gets to go to China and basically stole at least $5000 from hammertime. -
The OP made me sad with the way they addressed the issue. They should not be going to China and a majority of the clips mav posted was more than enough proof to prove he wasn't legit. However saidin just took 1 of the clips that showed nothing at all and acts like it proves he's legit. Mav's description of the cheat didn't exactly help his case, but if you watched the whole video and used common sense you can clearly see cheats in some of the clips.
Nonetheless, gl to carbon in China without your cheater topping.
We analyzed the entire clip. That one was used as an example. The accuser used that particular section of the video as a "must see" clip for players to understand the red dot theory. It was logical to use that as our 'feature' in this analysis.
We'll be glad to post further ones, but it takes time to type up and communicate those to the public.
But there are clear examples of artifacting (video compression). Blurry images are created by video taping screens, especially with things like webcams.
There are also other clear examples of impossible scenarios, Red Dots showing places that players aren't even in. That one example we showed was not an isolated case within the entire video.
In other "case" videos which are being created at this point from footage shown years ago show things like video transitions, motion blur effects used in post in which case red dots seemingly randomly appear.
We took this acusation very seriously, especially out of respect for the parties involved who were doing the accusing. If there is evidence that we haven't seen yet that doesn't involve red dots then please let me know. -
He was cheating
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpe7EucczdQ
Please explain why there is a dot on the minimap that is exactly where the player is and the dot is moving with the player.
btw sorry if I sound hostile, but I'm confident that he does cheat yet he still gets to go to China and basically stole at least $5000 from hammertime.
For the same reason there is a red dot on my blurred photoshop example.
No "post work" was done on my photoshop example. You can do it yourself. Take a picture, blur it then save it as a zero quality jpg. With enough compression photoshop eventually starts to fill in colors itself and created red dots. -
boratCARL0SS wrote: »Why is there red dots on famous's screen, like literally, why is there red dots where players are? I thought that only happened in CSS, and CS:GO(normally), But red dots in crossfire where players are... right.. yeah okay.
I support this.
@saidin, lol...
Sucks that hammertime was scammed out of $5000 because of cheats.
Also just throwing it out there, has famous EVER performed on an actual anticheat like he does on webcams? The only time I've seen famous on an anticheat he was fragging less than dellzor. (<3) -
You guys should calm the fck down.
Denxi proved the red dots to not be players in the famou's bust video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J7VN8TAJ3Q
Even though those red dots aren't people, famous SHOULD explain why there are red dots.
Only he knows if he's legit or not. Although he's sketchy, we can't call him a cheater unless there ARE evidence. -
I support this.
@saidin, lol...
Sucks that hammertime was scammed out of $5000 because of cheats.
Also just throwing it out there, has famous EVER performed on an actual anticheat like he does on webcams? The only time I've seen famous on an anticheat he was fragging less than dellzor. (<3)
To the "support". It's been shown and will continue to be shown that when you compare the stream footage with the cam footage that players are not in the positions where the red dots supposedly are.
To the point about anti cheat and skill level. That doesn't matter. That's like saying you failed your math test because it was raining. Therefore you can't do math on Tuesdays. It makes zero sense. -
Explain this? You really see a red dot, exactly thesame as the white one, and the bomb is already planted.
If you can't see.
Oh, here changing Levels and Sharpness.
This proves that there is something strange at his radar.
Edit:
This is my last edit, look at this, it are two different colors, this means it has nothing todo with the bomb.
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Even though those red dots aren't people, famous SHOULD explain why there are red dots.
Only he knows if he's legit or not. Although he's sketchy, we can't call him a cheater unless there ARE evidence.
Please see the color analysis and image compression / artifacting section of our review.
http://forum.z8games.com/showpost.php?p=3578205&postcount=5
It's not difficult to reproduce those kinds of "red dots". -
You guys should calm the fck down.
Denxi proved the red dots to not be players in the famou's bust video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J7VN8TAJ3Q
Even though those red dots aren't people, famous SHOULD explain why there are red dots.
Only he knows if he's legit or not. Although he's sketchy, we can't call him a cheater unless there ARE evidence.
id like him to analyze (he loves doing this) every instance of red dots
Can i see all the footage against hammertime in cf stars? -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »Compress a recorded video and watch for artifacting. I clearly showed an example of how phantom "red dots" can appear by doing such. It's not difficult to reproduce this in videos. Even some older webcam youtube videos can be switched to the lowest quality to create the same effect.
The way you have put this here suggests that you still believe the original submitted hackusation video.
The hackusation video that was submitted shows no proof of a hack existing. Just an assumption stated over and over. No matter how many times you say "honestly" doesn't make it fact.
We've shown here that be using facts and logic you can come to the conclusion that he was not hacking.
I respect you guys and your opinion, and there is still a long way to go with learning and improving on events. But it's pretty clear here that the points brought up in this video are clearly false. And if those points are false, what other points do you have of that video that suggests he is hacking.
We've said we'll still take evidence submissions, and we'll be glad to discuss the case. As far as the actual championship goes, the decision has been made and nothing at this point will change that particular fate. However there is always room to issue action after the fact, and improve on it for future events. Especially with WCG coming up.
Please let me know via PM if you have any further evidence, beyond red dots, to submit for this case (if my inbox is open you can try on Monday).
I capitalize "legitimately" to emphasize the fact that LANs would, if not fully prevent, reduce any attempts of unfair play.
One can say that it is due to video artifacting that it is creating those ghost red dots. The others could say that it could be a 3rd party program producing those red dots. With all "online" evidence and sources, no one can legitimize the final verdict of the case.
One may say that famous recorded on camera because he didn't want screen capturing to affect his gameplay. The others may say that he used reverse psychology in the idea that people wouldn't think someone could possibly be cheating if they "real cam" it.
As one who professions in video editing and manipulation/CGI, I could easily say that the person could have implemented those artifacts easily by increasing "noise", setting it to red channels only, adding some RGB curves to finalize the colours, adding gaussian blur to create a uniform rounded effect and even adding some dots of their own to disguise the hack.
In which case, because the rules had legally stated that players need to Bandicam, there should be no exceptions to those whether they have a problem, or their FPS drops because of it. Not to say that I do or that famous could have done, it is possible for one to use 3rd party programs and disguise them with video manipulation software. -
I support this.
@saidin, lol...
Sucks that hammertime was scammed out of $5000 because of cheats.
Also just throwing it out there, has famous EVER performed on an actual anticheat like he does on webcams? The only time I've seen famous on an anticheat he was fragging less than dellzor. (<3)
damn, fam0us must be avging less than a 0.11 fpr if on ac gggggggggg -
boratCARL0SS wrote: »Why is there red dots on famous's screen, like literally, why is there red dots where players are? I thought that only happened in CSS, and CS:GO(normally), But red dots in crossfire where players are... right.. yeah okay.
So you are dumb right? The dots never line up with the actual positions of the players nor do they line up with how many players are alive. Why would there only be 1 or 2 dots if there's more then 1 or 2 players alive? Also why would there be 2 dots when there is 1 player alive. You are a pathetic little thing and need to grow up. -
I capitalize "legitimately" to emphasize the fact that LANs would, if not fully prevent, reduce any attempts of unfair play.
.
So to fund lans all players have to play to go and no prize money since it is spent on the lan... how many would go? -
I capitalize "legitimately" to emphasize the fact that LANs would, if not fully prevent, reduce any attempts of unfair play.
One can say that it is due to video artifacting that it is creating those ghost red dots. The others could say that it could be a 3rd party program producing those red dots. With all "online" evidence and sources, no one can legitimize the final verdict of the case.
One may say that famous recorded on camera because he didn't want screen capturing to affect his gameplay. The others may say that he used reverse psychology in the idea that people wouldn't think someone could possibly be cheating if they "real cam" it.
As one who professions in video editing and manipulation/CGI, I could easily say that the person could have implemented those artifacts easily by increasing "noise", setting it to red channels only, adding some RGB curves to finalize the colours, adding gaussian blur to create a uniform rounded effect and even adding some dots of their own to disguise the hack.
In which case, because the rules had legally stated that players need to Bandicam, there should be no exceptions to those whether they have a problem, or their FPS drops because of it. Not to say that I do or that famous could have done, it is possible for one to use 3rd party programs and disguise them with video manipulation software.
we asked the admins of the league if it was OK. They run the league, they knew what was happening, so don't sit here and talk about how bandicam was the only recording device you are allowed to use when YOU don't run the league.
![[Denxi]](https://forum.z8games.com/uploads/customavatars/0/navatar_2018000.gif){kind=avatar}
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