Suggested changes to the kick system
Comments
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Hells_Judge wrote: »I read your answer and it seems to me you don't understand how the suggested vote kick works :
You don't start a vote in Phyllibear's suggestion.
To put it simply, each player has voice he can put against any other player. If, at any time during the game, a player has enough voices against him (50% of the maximum) then he is kicked.
It means that, for a player to get kicked, he needs to have attracted a lot of people's attention at the same time.
That's what a hacker do. Fair play player on his team and probably all the opposite team will want him out. Imagine this vote kick in HM or MM : a one shot hacker start its rampage and you can be sure that at least 10 out of 16 players will want him out after a few rounds.
As for Aces ? First, the ace changes, so depending on who is ace, by how much and when, the number of people wanting him out will greatly vary. At the same time, some people that just died will QQ against their killer and vote against him rather than the ace. All of that amounts to greatly reduced chance of seeing legit aces out (the same applies to good players too).
Of course there are possible abuses for this system, but they are more limited and harder to exploit than those the current system allows.
This guy knows what I mean
Any system can be abused, we just need a system that is better at kicking hackers and worse at kicking legit people than the current one. Which brings us back to post 1 of the topicHypernamer2 wrote: »I approved that BUT
I believe that the best but most difficult solution is to educate the community about kicking
Impossible. -
MaybeHells_Judge wrote: »I read your answer and it seems to me you don't understand how the suggested vote kick worksHells_Judge wrote: »To put it simply, each player has voice he can put against any other player. If, at any time during the game, a player has enough voices against him (50% of the maximum) then he is kicked.
It means that, for a player to get kicked, he needs to have attracted a lot of people's attention at the same time.
That's what a hacker do. Fair play player on his team and probably all the opposite team will want him out. Imagine this vote kick in HM or MM : a one shot hacker start its rampage and you can be sure that at least 10 out of 16 players will want him out after a few rounds.
Have you ever seen how a vote kick failed. Sometimes I think every one knows one guy hack, because he has the whole page of of killing all the time. And you can ask an decent opponent start a vote, guess what? 3:12 or worse. Even some guy on victim side would not vote? What can you say? They have learned to live with it, but we need call everyone's attention to fight hackers, right?
If they would not vote in the old system, how could you expect them to vote in the new system?Hells_Judge wrote: »As for Aces ? First, the ace changes, so depending on who is ace, by how much and when, the number of people wanting him out will greatly vary. At the same time, some people that just died will QQ against their killer and vote against him rather than the ace. All of that amounts to greatly reduced chance of seeing legit aces out (the same applies to good players too).
Of course there are possible abuses for this system, but they are more limited and harder to exploit than those the current system allows.
Unfortunately, a legit player who aced, or even not aced but with some good kdr, will be kicked very easily, but I don't know, I might be voted lots of times and similarly no one want to vote. Anyway, sometimes even they would not vote kick, host can make a final decision. I remember someone told me:"Ghost, what you did is only head shot", then I was kicked. What is the point? Too many hackers make lots of legit player doubt others ---- I found myself have this tendency. While lots of others just would not bothering to keep the game clean. So we know both are not good and will make vote system not efficient.
So still my old point, it is the players' attitude need to be improved. And it would be z8games' role to encourage player to do the right thing.
If you read through the posts, you know what I mean. More than one MoD says it is x-trap's job to stop hackers, more than one MoD stops the thread talking about hackers, more than one MoD thinks because he/she sees 1 hacks in 3 games, there should only 1 hacker all the servers.
So the problem here is, z8 doesn't think it would be a serious problem, and they never want the player to talk about, or do something against hacker. Their hope is with the autoban as well as x-trap. But as we know, neither of them is updated faster than hack code. -
Hypernamer2 wrote: »I approved that BUT
I believe that the best but most difficult solution is to educate the community about kicking
That is what i want to say. And I believe the only way to do it is through z8's effort to encourage player to do it.
z8 has made so many events to let player spamming in forum, collect ribbon, strange weapons, and so many fancy things, but just can't make a basic system to encourage fair player, and encourage players to maintain a fair play environment.
In fact, I believe if they create a credit system to accumulate the point of each players' effort against hacker, the voting system can be improved greatly with this credit system ---- because we can simply weight the vote by the credit. The player who are more active to fighting hacker, and more precisely make decision, should be weighed more than those who never report, never vote. And make some ribbon for the credit, players will pursuit it.
They can also make clan ribbons, make the clan leader another group of resource to ensure the fair play.
All are not hard to implement, and will turn the cummunity on. -
Have you ever seen how a vote kick failed. Sometimes I think every one knows one guy hack, because he has the whole page of of killing all the time. And you can ask an decent opponent start a vote, guess what? 3:12 or worse. Even some guy on victim side would not vote? What can you say? They have learned to live with it, but we need call everyone's attention to fight hackers, right?
I see more 9:something than 3:12.
I also see a lot of hackers getting kicked in GM and even some in TD (where you would expect people being too busy to vote).
I also see a lot of legit players (or at least legit-looking) getting kicked.
In short, I see more kicking succeeding than failing.
The ones that often fail are usually the random kick, the revenge kick, the afk kick.If they would not vote in the old system, how could you expect them to vote in the new system?
How can you say that people doesn't vote in the current system ? Don't you see you're contradicting yourself : you say no one votes the hackers but then you say people mistaken legit payers (like you) for hackers and kick them.
Besides, I see hackers as well as people not hacking getting kicked all day long.
People (ab)use the current vote kick system.
But let's just say that, indeed, people would vote less with Phillybear's suggestion than with the current system.
Now, you're telling me hackers aren't kicked but legit players are. Well, less voting means hackers will still not be kicked (doesn't change) but at least less legit players will be.
Current system : hackers not kicked, legit kicked
Suggested system : hackers not kicked, legit not kicked
Do I need to show you which system is the better for the legit players ?z8 has made so many events to let player spamming in forum, collect ribbon, strange weapons, and so many fancy things, but just can't make a basic system to encourage fair player, and encourage players to maintain a fair play environment.
You say that, but what system could encourage fair play ? Did you suggest one ? It seems you do it in the next quote :In fact, I believe if they create a credit system to accumulate the point of each players' effort against hacker, the voting system can be improved greatly with this credit system ---- because we can simply weight the vote by the credit. The player who are more active to fighting hacker, and more precisely make decision, should be weighed more than those who never report, never vote. And make some ribbon for the credit, players will pursuit it.
Abuse of your system : it's easy to report obvious hackers, malicious players (the opposite of the fair player you want Z8 to encourage) will report massive amount of hackers just so they acquire a lot of credits.
Then they will simply use their overweighed vote to kick legit players for whatever reason they see fit.
Note to mention it could backfire horribly with people wanting credit and reporting massively every player that looks like hack to them. And a ribbon would just have the same effect tenfold. All of that will make good reports drowned in an ocean of stupidity (even more than it is now).They can also make clan ribbons, make the clan leader another group of resource to ensure the fair play.
All are not hard to implement, and will turn the cummunity on.
With clans so easily created and clans that can/could distribute hacks how would clan ribbons be of any help ? Besides if a clan's leader/lieutenants lack fair play, how giving them more responsibility would make a better community ?
Let's stop the kicking fest first.
With this suggestion, people will think more about the people they want to kick. That's what I call educating players and trying to improve the community. -
Just put a realistic kicking-system and its all done for
if theres a vote like F11 = 8 and F12 = 7, it shouldn't be "missed"... it should kick the player, 'cuz ( i think ) there were reasons to kick him
just a stupid kicking-system, like the most thinkgs Z8Games does -.-
I bet the most of Z8Games don't even care about us gamers, just about their cash...
Sorry Z8games, but its the truth and the most of us think like me i bet!
Greetz. -
Phillybear wrote: »For the small change: for most people the worst part about being kicked is losing the xp, gp and kills, basicly resulting in what some would call "lost time". Removing this would let the legit people keep their kills and the rest. True, it also lets hackers keep those, but they should be banned anyway, so letting them keep the kdr until then doesn't really matter.
I really like this idea, it has been suggested but I don't know if it is being considered. This is needed to keep the legit players playing, because if not, then whats the point of getting kicked every other game?Phillybear wrote: »- Because the vote doesn't get shown, the votes won't get focused. Now someone starts a vote and a lot of people will f11 without knowing why.
This is so true. I've played crossfire at my friends house (irl) and every time a kick vote comes up he just presses f11... So I asked him why and he just replied "why not?" He didn't even care to look at who was potentially going to get kicked... (btw, this player wasn't hacking; just a legit decent player.) -
That is your experience. I only play TDM, mostly in pub, and mostly in fortress. I saw no more than 10 vote against hacker success. One guy has told me that hacker has anti-kick, I believed that because it seems to me they have. I seldom see we have more to vote f11. And several times we seems to wins, we got message that vote failed at 9:6. But I can say there are no more than 10 times. Because every time I saw it, I will spray some fk publicly. And you remember i create a thread says the community is rotten? That is because I found the vote kick almost always has to fail, and apparent fail.Hells_Judge wrote: »I see more 9:something than 3:12.
I also see a lot of hackers getting kicked in GM and even some in TD (where you would expect people being too busy to vote).
I also see a lot of legit players (or at least legit-looking) getting kicked.
In short, I see more kicking succeeding than failing.
The ones that often fail are usually the random kick, the revenge kick, the afk kick.Hells_Judge wrote: »How can you say that people doesn't vote in the current system ? Don't you see you're contradicting yourself : you say no one votes the hackers but then you say people mistaken legit payers (like you) for hackers and kick them.
Besides, I see hackers as well as people not hacking getting kicked all day long.
I know they are not voting because the 3:x result is normal. Sometimes I am just wondering why the victim team would not vote. But they don't, I have lots of time hiding in base and ask opponent side to start a vote, one of fair player did it, two in my teammate asked everyone to vote, but the vote result is 3, I can say my teammates still busy running out of base to get shot.
So 3:x in a 15-16 player game means every one votes? I guess at least 4-5 rejects to vote. Do the math by yourself.Hells_Judge wrote: »People (ab)use the current vote kick system.
But let's just say that, indeed, people would vote less with Phillybear's suggestion than with the current system.
Now, you're telling me hackers aren't kicked but legit players are. Well, less voting means hackers will still not be kicked (doesn't change) but at least less legit players will be.
Current system : hackers not kicked, legit kicked
Suggested system : hackers not kicked, legit not kicked
Do I need to show you which system is the better for the legit players ?
You say that, but what system could encourage fair play ? Did you suggest one ? It seems you do it in the next quote :
Abuse of your system : it's easy to report obvious hackers, malicious players (the opposite of the fair player you want Z8 to encourage) will report massive amount of hackers just so they acquire a lot of credits.
Then they will simply use their overweighed vote to kick legit players for whatever reason they see fit.
Note to mention it could backfire horribly with people wanting credit and reporting massively every player that looks like hack to them. And a ribbon would just have the same effect tenfold. All of that will make good reports drowned in an ocean of stupidity (even more than it is now).
With clans so easily created and clans that can/could distribute hacks how would clan ribbons be of any help ? Besides if a clan's leader/lieutenants lack fair play, how giving them more responsibility would make a better community ?
Let's stop the kicking fest first.
With this suggestion, people will think more about the people they want to kick. That's what I call educating players and trying to improve the community.
Ok, I would not answer you line by line, but the false kick happens, I was kicked immediately after I being killed 3 times in row and start to kill the only opponent from roof. And I made 3 head shot in row, and my only teammate vote kicked me in time.
And I have not press f11 or f12 in many votes, because I have killed and being killed by the player, I know he is ok. Also I know I was kicked by host lots of time, sometimes not even start to play. So can I say there are lots of abuse of the system?
Therefore, here is my opinion on the new system, I know there are something really good, but once z8 can not create a rule to encourage people to use it properly and discourage people from abuse it, the system will always be abused, even it is harder to be abused.
z8's daily mission is a big problem that it wrongly direct the player to achieve something that is not so important. And we never see z8 would credit those who report hackers correctly, those who vote fairly, those who keeps a clean clan. Instead, we see MoD close Hacker QQ thread, we see MoD saying "I have only seen 1 hacker", we see MoD claim it is x-trap's job to stop hacker.
Lots of player has suggested ribbon for reporting hackers, they can easily improve it by reporting hackers correctly, -5 for every false report, -3 for every wrong vote after request to review, +1 for every correct report, 100 points to get a ribbon, the vote just simply weight by credit. So those who is active against hacker and can make precise judgement will soon make their contribute. And those who keeps abuse it will have only several chance to abuse it. Their weight of vote will be trivial at last.
Sound good? But it might never happen, similar to the improvement proposed in this thread. The problem, they think we are talking something not exist.
And it seems that you have agreed on my theory, any system can abused (you have give example), but you have not insight that it is the player who need be directed in a correct way. -
another idea would be:
the kicking sytsem like it is now and the host can kick every player without a voting.
that would be pretty hard for good players, but ind general i think good players would like better be kicked more often than play with a hacker all the time.
and the good players can solve the problem, when they always host the game... -
z8games isnt going to look at that at all, they are gonna give you the big middle finger to you
Take a look at this...
http://img535.imageshack.us/i/crossfire201103080000.png/
The hackers are not even being looked at anymore - giving them the ability to reach higher ranks and continue hacking.
My guess is that the administration team just abandoned crossfire, labeled it a lost cause, and are in the process of making something better. They may occasionally look back at this game, but for the most part they just let it go, cut there losses, and keep collecting money off it until people refuse to pay or just stop paying altogether.
I have been here since the beginning of crossfire and I never spent a penny on this game, and I never will. You get hacked, have the lowest quality support team, and aren't given any opportunities ti have fun at all. Like I would really convert the money in my wallet into virtual money(Zp points) to spend on a horrid game like this. -
1) Again you use something that doesn't work on the current system. Saying a new system won't work on a problem the old one doesn't work on is a rather bad argument...I know they are not voting because the 3:x result is normal. Sometimes I am just wondering why the victim team would not vote. But they don't
So 3:x in a 15-16 player game means every one votes? I guess at least 4-5 rejects to vote. Do the math by yourself.
Ok, I would not answer you line by line, but the false kick happens, I was kicked immediately after I being killed 3 times in row and start to kill the only opponent from roof. And I made 3 head shot in row, and my only teammate vote kicked me in time.
And I have not press f11 or f12 in many votes, because I have killed and being killed by the player, I know he is ok. Also I know I was kicked by host lots of time, sometimes not even start to play. So can I say there are lots of abuse of the system?
Therefore, here is my opinion on the new system, I know there are something really good, but once z8 can not create a rule to encourage people to use it properly and discourage people from abuse it, the system will always be abused, even it is harder to be abused.
2) The 'false kick' would happen less (like said before), it'll most likely only exist in small rooms, as opposed to the massive spreading it knows now.
3) Systems can always be abused, but the possible abuse is bigger/easier with the current system. Not as much abuse possible with the new one, because you don't see who is close to getting kicked. (unlike a f11 spam at 9-x)
4) With a new system, Z8 would have to explain it anyway, not just add it without any explanation. Besides, there is no way to check abuse of the vote system, so punishment will get hard...
5) Stop suggesting all kinds of other stuff that you think should be added, this thread is about a new kick vote system, not about why the old one doesn't work properly (which is a fact) or why the community is so stupid. -
i very much like this idea. it would be an amazing improvement also in terms of preventing sheeps from jumping on f11 whenever they re being asked.
you are doing their work (better and for free) yet still chances are this will go unnoticed.
i d love to be wrong here, of course.
this thread also screams for a karma-system.
+2 -
i very much like this idea. it would be an amazing improvement also in terms of preventing sheeps from jumping on f11 whenever they re being asked.
you are doing their work (better and for free) yet still chances are this will go unnoticed.
i d love to be wrong here, of course.
this thread also screams for a karma-system.
+2
Yes, I know the chances
Just be wrong then
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you are doing their work (better and for free) yet still chances are this will go unnoticed
that's because we need more zp guns/items, not some silly vote kick system
On Topic: m4 adv-custom-camo-knife with a little bit of red-dragon on the trigger -
Phillybear wrote: »Yes, I know the chances
Just be wrong then
i will try hard!that's because we need more zp guns/items, not some silly vote kick system
On Topic: m4 adv-custom-camo-knife with a little bit of red-dragon on the trigger
qft. i am looking forward to a gun which has a scope on the scope. so everyone could
quickscope....scope their enemy. wouldn´t mind if that gun was made of diamonds.
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